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errr... I thought there was more than 2 camps... you're in one, seeming to want EFTA, there is another Brexit camp that wants out of everything, and there is a group that wants to remain as it is. I'm sure there is a group that wants to remain with some reform of the EU, and I'm equally sure...

I am doing all of the above, and more... (well I've not organised a rally - but I am helping to crowd fund one). Being on here and other places is a good way of understanding the debate, and honestly I do want to be convinced its a positive... so far no one has managed that. I live in hope.

You're on an eBike forum, so here's an example... you should see the benefit of the EU wide 250w / 25kph standard and how it benefits UK / EU suppliers because they have a standard massive market to sell to. Its why the EU brands are so far ahead of the US where they have different standards in...

it may do... but as I keep saying.... you're giving me nothing to think it will do.... and all the experts and people I trust understand these things don't seem very positive. I don't think you realise how bad it could be...

That's because if you remember... it was promised that A50 would be triggered immediately. That didn't happen, and things do take a while to play out. Only someone with their head in the sand would say that because it didn't happen immediately, we're all going to be ok.

So ignorant.... you might not realise it, but you are poorer. unless of course you don't buy anything, or haven't realised you're getting less for the money you're paying. Working in the trade allows me to see the impact first hand, on just our little bit of this specific industry, but its...

You asked a question.... so I gave you examples. people have lost their jobs and we're all poorer.

Do you want a list...? Because this could go on and on and on. http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Business-News/Salad-firm-enters-administration-after-Brexit-price-challenges I've got poorer, and so have you. Butter in local morrisons used to be 88p, now its close to £1.20 most week. Dark...

a real step back in time... to gain precisely nothing.

1 in 4 now starting to admit they were lied to... http://uk.businessinsider.com/one-in-four-brexit-voters-believe-they-were-misled-by-the-leave-campaign-2017-8?r=US&IR=T

Lol, so that's the point clearly... What people "think" has no relationship to the reality of the situation. Brexit in a nutshell. People don't realise they ARE European shocker. People don't realise the facts shocker. Vote based on nonsense... is not the way to run anything, let alone a...

So we're about to walk away from that deal... that's my point.

Because its a world wide global market place. Its all interlinked and everything has consequences and knock on relationships. So you're in charge, you're taking us out of the EU, who do you want a Free Trade agreement with?

Singapore... has a free trade agreement with the EU. European Union-Singapore Free Trade Agreement (EUSFTA) The European Union-Singapore Free Trade Agreement (EUSFTA) is the first FTA concluded between the EU and an ASEAN country. The agreement will come into force after it is signed and...

So you're in charge. Would you give up the free trade deal with the EU to get one with ... who?

err... a) we're Europeans. b) you're not giving your power away. You don't understand it, that's clear. But the UK is very much part of the EU its not some foreign body, we're part of it, an integral important part. I think you'd feel different if the EU HQ was based in the UK, or if the...

All very interesting.... so how do you feel knowing that 44% of our exports go to the EU, benefiting us from being inside that fortress. So we and suddenly we're outside, and competing with the EU. How do you think UK business will cope with that? We're also going to loose all the free trade...

I agree, but I'm not sure its what they are planning, but I do think its what might happen.

Not if they are delaying and delaying until even the leavers realise that leaving isn't the solution or have any benefits they we sold. Then if Conservatives pull out from Brexit, they will make everyone happy.

Sorry, I missed the bit abut "propose" Who do you think Proposes the laws in the UK, for the Lords and Commons to vote on? Its the unelected civil servants in the various departments, that are then presented as Bills for the elected MP and unelected Lords to vote on.