Brexit, for once some facts.

[OxygenJames]

OH MY ACTUAL GOD.... seriously, this is scary, that you actual believe this and have so little understanding of the actual way things work.

You can clearly type, so type things into Google and do some research. Ignorance is fine, its something you can solve. Have a check who you MEP is and contact them, I'd be prepared to bet you didn't even vote in the last european elections and don't know who your MEP is.

Well yes Oh My God you did half get me there. It's not the commissioners who get £200 a day. But those very same commissioners are the ones we can't kick out.

"the Commission President and the individual Commissioners are not directly elected by the peoples of Europe. So we cannot “throw the scoundrels out”. It is also true that under the provisions of the EU treaty, the Commission has the sole right to propose EU legislation, which, if passed, is then binding on all the EU member states and the citizens of these member states."

Now I just don't like that as a system of government. Do you?

 

[oldtom]

Matt Damon has just gone up enormously in my estimation! Damon could have simply kept his mouth shut and got on with increasing his personal wealth in his very successful career as an actor but he chose to stand up and speak his mind about the state of the USA and the world in general.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1527399140659415

Tom

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Well yes Oh My God you did half get me there. It's not the commissioners who get £200 a day. But those very same commissioners are the ones we can't kick out.

"the Commission President and the individual Commissioners are not directly elected by the peoples of Europe. So we cannot “throw the scoundrels out”. It is also true that under the provisions of the EU treaty, the Commission has the sole right to propose EU legislation, which, if passed, is then binding on all the EU member states and the citizens of these member states."

Now I just don't like that as a system of government. Do you?

What, like you can't directly choose the PM, or the Secretary of State for Health, or Defense, or or or... because they are chosen by the people you elect to take these decisions for you. Same as you elect your MEP to take these decisions for you.

We live in a system of parliamentary democracy, that's in the UK and the EU. In both cases you vote for people and they then go off and make the decisions and vote people into the positions of power.

The EU is not an un democratic organisation, and if you think it is, it is you that is mistaken.

The Commission is chosen by the elected members of the countries in the EU, so again chosen by the people you elected to make decisions for you. Just like the government is chosen by the MP you might have voted for.. the EU commission is chosen by the Government you voted for.

"Under Article 17 of the EU treaty, as amended by the Lisbon Treaty, the Commission President is formally proposed by the European Council (the 28 heads of government of the EU member states), by a qualified-majority vote, and is then 'elected' by a majority vote in the European Parliament"

 

[Woosh]

at the heart of the brexit debate lies the question: how do you feel about UK representation in the EU? some see one against 27 as pretty hopeless when we pay 11% of the EU budget.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

at the heart of the brexit debate lies the question: how do you feel about UK representation in the EU? some see one against 27 as pretty hopeless when we pay 11% of the EU budget.

So what you're saying is that at the heart of the vote was ignorance of our relationship with the EU, well imagine my surprise at that.

ah, the joy of being able to show you're wrong again... with just a 5 second google search.

We get a 13% share of the vote, so actually more than our 11% budget contribution.

https://fullfact.org/europe/british-influence-eu-council-ministers/

 

[Woosh]

OxygenJames only spells out the brexiters' viewpoint.
The EU government is the Commission. We'd like to have the top job of the President of the Commision please, or at least 11% of the time.

 

[oldgroaner]

Well yes Oh My God you did half get me there. It's not the commissioners who get £200 a day. But those very same commissioners are the ones we can't kick out.

"the Commission President and the individual Commissioners are not directly elected by the peoples of Europe. So we cannot “throw the scoundrels out”. It is also true that under the provisions of the EU treaty, the Commission has the sole right to propose EU legislation, which, if passed, is then binding on all the EU member states and the citizens of these member states."

Now I just don't like that as a system of government. Do you?

Note the word PROPOSE they do not have the right to IMPOSE do they?
All Proposals pass through a voting process and members of the commission are elected to those posts.
And since when where Members of the House of Lords elected, or members of government quangos here?
Why don't you like things that you clearly have no understanding of?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

OxygenJames only spells out the brexiters' viewpoint.
The EU government is the Commission. We'd like to have the top job of the President of the Commision please, or at least 11% of the time.

When can we establish that the "brexiters' viewpoint" is simply wrong and can be ignored?

We have had the top job and I think we've had it more than 11% of the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Commission

Roy Jenkins was President - 5 January 1977 19 January 1981

They serve 5 year terms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Commission

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Well yes Oh My God you did half get me there. It's not the commissioners who get £200 a day. But those very same commissioners are the ones we can't kick out.

"the Commission President and the individual Commissioners are not directly elected by the peoples of Europe. So we cannot “throw the scoundrels out”. It is also true that under the provisions of the EU treaty, the Commission has the sole right to propose EU legislation, which, if passed, is then binding on all the EU member states and the citizens of these member states."

Now I just don't like that as a system of government. Do you?

Sorry, I missed the bit abut "propose"

Who do you think Proposes the laws in the UK, for the Lords and Commons to vote on? Its the unelected civil servants in the various departments, that are then presented as Bills for the elected MP and unelected Lords to vote on.

 

[oldgroaner]

Can someone actually explain please just what the Brexiters are now seeking, since all the original claims, promises lies and even ambitions have gone out of the window, and I for one no longer have a clear picture of what the Brexit voters hopes and expectations actually encompass.

Ignoring what the Government wants, what do the people think is achievable?
Note that word, it is different to Desirable.

Everyone I speak to expects to be poorer for about ten years..what is to be expected after that to make that acceptable?

 

[Woosh]

Can someone actually explain please just what the Brexiters are now seeking,

the clock to move faster.

 

[Danidl]

OxygenJames only spells out the brexiters' viewpoint.
The EU government is the Commission. We'd like to have the top job of the President of the Commision please, or at least 11% of the time.

Sorry Woosh, but that is a fools pardon. He is entitled to an opinion, but he or she is equally required to ensure that it is a informed opinion.. we have been over this ground before. None of us, over the age of reason, is entitled to spout nonsense or lies .. only in the USA with its absurd constitutional amendment is that permissable.
On reflection, I am surmising that it is the UKs inexperience with collations or consensus politics, that reflects it's poor performance at the highest levels in Europe. An ability to negotiate and work with others, would be a requirement and the leaders from smaller countries particularly with pr or etc electro systems are at an advantage.

 

[Woosh]

he or she is equally required to ensure that it is a informed opinion..

then Douglas Carswell puts up a pretty good reason why brexit did and should win.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/douglas-carswell-explains-brexit-leave-campaign-won-overthrow-emerging-oligarchy-2017-5

1. Cameron whipped up expectation then failed to deliver
2. Leave put the right faces to front their campaign
3. Leave campaign for change, remain for more of the same.

 

[Danidl]

then Douglas Carswell puts up a pretty good reason why brexit did and should win.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/douglas-carswell-explains-brexit-leave-campaign-won-overthrow-emerging-oligarchy-2017-5

1. Cameron whipped up expectation then failed to deliver
2. Leave put the right faces to front their campaign
3. Leave campaign for change, remain for more of the same.

So what?
Trump also ran a brilliant campaign, as he remains the world on an almost daily basis. .. his main point being your point 3 above.
I blame your parliamentary politicians, post referendum for failing to take the back the initiative, and responsible governance.

 

[Kudoscycles]

We are all discussing Brexit as though the EU have any negotiating room to accommodate May's wishlist. But the Slovenian PM pointed out that the EU have already been briefed by Barnier as to what the UK will be allowed....it is impractical for Barnier to refer to all 27 countries so the EU position is set in stone. The Slovenian PM disagrees with every aspect of the U.K. position,he is one of many who would veto any attempt by Barnier to change the EU's pre agreed terms.
He specifically mentioned that a hard border between N.I. and Ireland is essential to avoid back door smuggling. He also said that the EU and UK are so far apart that he couldn't see any possibility of a deal.
I suspect that Slovenia does almost no trade with the U.K. so any veto on his part and others like him will have no effect on his country.
The point I am making is that David is wasting his time....The EU have their red lines and we(Theresa May) have our red lines,these are completely opposite.....we might as well bring back to the UK what the EU are offering and vote on it.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

So what?

so the conservative government has to deliver brexit or loses power.
In a way, doing nothing and just wait for brexit to come may be their best card.
Whichever way they (the tories) move, they are going to make a lot of people very unhappy.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

so the conservative government has to deliver brexit or loses power.
In a way, doing nothing and just wait for brexit to come may be their best card.
Whichever way they (the tories) move, they are going to make a lot of people very unhappy.

Not if they are delaying and delaying until even the leavers realise that leaving isn't the solution or have any benefits they we sold. Then if Conservatives pull out from Brexit, they will make everyone happy.

 

[flecc]

It is also true that under the provisions of the EU treaty, the Commission has the sole right to propose EU legislation, which, if passed, is then binding on all the EU member states and the citizens of these member states."

You seem to be missing the point, "if passed". That is decided by the European Parliamnt which is elected, the Commissioners, one from each member country, can only propose measures.

But they don't even have that sole right. Many of the measures enacted have been proposed by the European Parliament to the EU Commission for consideration. Once again a democratic sourcing. The European Parliament once even proposed a measure for us to the Commission, that all pedelec power limits be dispensed with and only the assist speed limit controlling. As it happened the Commission rejected that proposal, feeling it went a bit too far for unregistered vehicles.
.

 

[flecc]

at the heart of the brexit debate lies the question: how do you feel about UK representation in the EU? some see one against 27 as pretty hopeless when we pay 11% of the EU budget.

So you think power should be able to be bought with wealth?
.

 

[Danidl]

Not if they are delaying and delaying until even the leavers realise that leaving isn't the solution or have any benefits they we sold. Then if Conservatives pull out from Brexit, they will make everyone happy.

That I suggest is wishful thinking on your (and my ) behalf. if that had been a strategy, they would not have triggered article 50 so early or would have pleaded an in ability to negotiate due to changed conditions (the election) at home.