I agree, but I'm not sure its what they are planning, but I do think its what might happen.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
I note that we still have contributors who have never taken the time to learn and understand the make-up and functions of the various elements of the EU. The nonsense about unelected, faceless decision-makers in Brussels has been debunked in this thread a long time ago but some vocal 'Brexidiots' are still posting absolute rubbish about the EU.
It is all readily available via any internet search engine and if anyone takes a little time to go through just some of the material, it will quickly become evident that the transparency, honesty and democratic processes which underpin all the functions and processes of EU business shame our British parliamentary system.
This short clip of the final part of an interview with Bertrand Russell from many years ago is something that all those anti-EU, anti-foreigner 'Brexit' devotees would do well to listen to and understand .
Tom
It is all readily available via any internet search engine and if anyone takes a little time to go through just some of the material, it will quickly become evident that the transparency, honesty and democratic processes which underpin all the functions and processes of EU business shame our British parliamentary system.
This short clip of the final part of an interview with Bertrand Russell from many years ago is something that all those anti-EU, anti-foreigner 'Brexit' devotees would do well to listen to and understand .
Tom
. No not true, Barnier does have a negotiating space. The plan is that following the negotiations, Barnier generates a conclusion document which is then voted on by qualified majority voting at the EU parliment.. so even were Ireland or Slovakia utterly opposed, it could still pass and become the EU position.
Hi Dave.
When I first joined eons ago I had just bought an Oxygen - hence the name - but I then later got rid of that and got a something else who's name escapes me - and now I have a Haibike. Which is super excellent if a little ridiculously expensive.
I do hope you're not going to use that information to argue against Brexit - though I fear you might.... but heck I have nothing to do right now so fire away.
James.
For all you Brexit lovers out there Matt Ridley has written an excellent piece today in the Times. Here's the first two paragraphs and the link. I know you all want to broaden your minds and read other opinions.
"Why does the European Union raise a tariff on coffee? It has no coffee industry to protect so the sole effect is to make coffee more expensive for all Europeans. Even where there is an industry to protect, protectionism hurts far more people than it helps. Last October the EU surreptitiously quintupled the tariff on imported oranges to 16 per cent to protect Spanish citrus producers against competition from South Africa and punish the rest of us. It imposes a tax of 4.7 per cent on imported umbrellas, 15 per cent on unicycles and 16.9 per cent on sports footwear.
I find that many Twitter trolls do not even realise that the European “single market” is actually a fortress protected by high external tariff walls. Yet external tariffs are pure self-harm; they are blockades against your own ports, as the economist Ryan Bourne has pointed out. We impose sanctions on pariah regimes, restricting their imports, not to help their economies but to hurt them. The entire point of producing things is to consume things (the pattern of pay shows that we work to live rather than vice versa), so punishing consumers is perverse. As Adam Smith put it, describing the European Union in advance, “in the mercantile system the interest of the consumer is almost constantly sacrificed to that of the producer”."
For the full article go to here:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/best-hope-for-free-trade-is-to-have-principles-7wgfw2l7v
"Why does the European Union raise a tariff on coffee? It has no coffee industry to protect so the sole effect is to make coffee more expensive for all Europeans. Even where there is an industry to protect, protectionism hurts far more people than it helps. Last October the EU surreptitiously quintupled the tariff on imported oranges to 16 per cent to protect Spanish citrus producers against competition from South Africa and punish the rest of us. It imposes a tax of 4.7 per cent on imported umbrellas, 15 per cent on unicycles and 16.9 per cent on sports footwear.
I find that many Twitter trolls do not even realise that the European “single market” is actually a fortress protected by high external tariff walls. Yet external tariffs are pure self-harm; they are blockades against your own ports, as the economist Ryan Bourne has pointed out. We impose sanctions on pariah regimes, restricting their imports, not to help their economies but to hurt them. The entire point of producing things is to consume things (the pattern of pay shows that we work to live rather than vice versa), so punishing consumers is perverse. As Adam Smith put it, describing the European Union in advance, “in the mercantile system the interest of the consumer is almost constantly sacrificed to that of the producer”."
For the full article go to here:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/best-hope-for-free-trade-is-to-have-principles-7wgfw2l7v
All very interesting.... so how do you feel knowing that 44% of our exports go to the EU, benefiting us from being inside that fortress. So we and suddenly we're outside, and competing with the EU. How do you think UK business will cope with that?
We're also going to loose all the free trade access we have to the other nations that our EU membership gets us access to. We'll be on WTO with everyone.
But they're not British. Any way you cut it - you're giving your/our power away to people who are not British. I do not want to be governed by a bunch of Europeans. Plain and simple.
Not if they get rid of the ECJ and stop limitless EU immigration and enable us to get free trade deals they won't - ie if they actually implement Brexit.
err... a) we're Europeans. b) you're not giving your power away. You don't understand it, that's clear. But the UK is very much part of the EU its not some foreign body, we're part of it, an integral important part. I think you'd feel different if the EU HQ was based in the UK, or if the current president was British.
So you're in charge. Would you give up the free trade deal with the EU to get one with ... who?
So? Singapore do pretty well on it. As do Hong Kong. As does New Zealand. Let us compete with the best - businesses that can't compete will fail. Great. Who wins? The consumer. Its called trade.
But we can't vote it down. They even changed the voting whenever it was to allow majority passing of laws - to some - how many votes did the UK vote against in the last umpteen years that got passed anyway. We have no power. We had no control. Now we do - or soon will. GOOD NEWS.
Context. This discussion is about democratic rule, which should not be bought as it's done so disgracefully in the USA.
.
they don't have much land, so they concentrate their effort on transformation industries and trade. Both rely heavily on commuter workers going to work by trains and buses - you have to see for yourself the number of people going to work in HK from the new territory or the railways station in Johor Bahru (Malasia side to Singapore) every morning to realize that's not going to work in the UK. It's like Gibralta multiplied 100 folds.
Of course we were voted down, our mission being to disrupt and refuse co-operation in the European project. If we'd been full members not demanding special treatments and working in co-operation, I've no doubt our input would have had a far better reception.
.
Our 'poor performance' in the 'highest levels of Europe' is - perhaps - more due to the fact that we WE NEVER WANTED TO BE PART OF A FULLY INTEGRATED Europe in the first place. Doh. Which is where it's going (the EU). We do not want that. Try to get that in your head. You say you're not from the UK yes? (apologies if not but I think I remember you saying that). It is showing. Just because you're hanging out here with a bunch of people who would in fact like us to be part of the federal states of Europe - does not mean thats true of most people here. Against all odds we won the referendum. This has been a long time coming. You are talking to the losing side here. They are not happy. Nor would I have been had we lost. But that's not what happened. We want out. Plain and simple.