Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

That applies to all Countries around the world that set their own standards, obtaining approvals merely a testing exercise to conform to, what is the problem?

Why would we want to influence it, we won't be a part of it after we leave?

If they impose standards that we are unable to comply with then we can't trade with them, but I do not see them benefiting from doing that.

It is a two way street the UK/EU will lose influence over each other.

Why would the UK be at it's mercy - please expand.

So you are saying we wont be trading with our biggest customer?
Without us influencing the decisions what is to stop them doing this
If they impose standards that we are unable to comply with then we can't trade with them, but I do not see them benefiting from doing that.
And why don't you see them doing so?
Let's imagine that they don't want workers to be exposed to certain chemicals in manufacture but to cut costs we have changed our laws to make this legal here
Or they change Electrical or Safety Standards or approval regimes. and we don't have that approval.
Iif they impose or change standards we don't want to comply with for that reason we have no come back, do we?
That is the reason we are in the system now.
Where is the advantage of giving that up? there simply isn't one is there?
The truth is "but I do not see them benefiting from doing that. " means nothing, does it? it will be at their discretion what they do, not ours.
As I said, we will be at their mercy for no good reason.

 

[oldgroaner]

Even the Telegraph is getting Nervous
"
Britain is surely doomed if it doesn't urgently start upping investment in its future

About time they realised that.

And in the Guardian
"
Theresa May accused of U-turn over EU court’s role after Brexit
Latest Brexit policy paper leaves open possibility of European court of justice retaining say on UK law

 

[Woosh]

The Guardian should welcome the clarification instead of making accusation.
TM's government is stating the obvious, if we are going to stay close to the EU after brexit and allow our citizens to retire to Southern Europe then it makes sense to meet the EU half way.

 

[Danidl]

The Guardian should welcome the clarification instead of making accusation.
TM's government is stating the obvious, if we are going to stay close to the EU after brexit and allow our citizens to retire to Southern Europe then it makes sense to meet the EU half way.

I agree with you about the unnecessarily confrontational headlines from both sides . I don't read or get UK daily newspapers, so am dependent on the selection of headlines you and other posters refer to.
I am appalled by the partisan nature of these. Some common sense and maybe a notion of fair play, could ratchet down the tension a lot..

 

[Woosh]

our tabloid newspapers make us look stupider than we really are.

 

[oldgroaner]

I agree with you about the unnecessarily confrontational headlines from both sides . I don't read or get UK daily newspapers, so am dependent on the selection of headlines you and other posters refer to.
I am appalled by the partisan nature of these. Some common sense and maybe a notion of fair play, could ratchet down the tension a lot..

Fair play? the problem is simply that when Politicians make pronouncements about "Red Lines" then trample all over them, it is difficult for anyone here not to see this as a betrayal of the people they are purporting to represent, on the basis of promises they have previously made.

 

[oldgroaner]

The Guardian should welcome the clarification instead of making accusation.
TM's government is stating the obvious, if we are going to stay close to the EU after brexit and allow our citizens to retire to Southern Europe then it makes sense to meet the EU half way.

Better still drop the whole stupid idea of Brexit as a being unfit for purpose.

 

[oldgroaner]

our tabloid newspapers make us look stupider than we really are.

Or could it be that for once they are closer to the truth than usual?
After all they work tirelessly to promote stupid ideas every day, that means that they are expert in the field of "Mass Stupidity"

 

[Woosh]

Better still drop the whole stupid idea of Brexit as a being unfit for purpose.

the real difficult negotiation is between our two camps, the subject is how close to the EU we are going to be after brexit.
If we could have a national consensus, then the job of the negotiators will be 10 times easier.

 

[oldgroaner]

the real difficult negotiation is between our two camps, the subject is how close to the EU we are going to be after brexit.
If we could have a national consensus, then the job of the negotiators will be 10 times easier.

And since a third Referendum is another "Red Line" how is one to understand what the public actually want?
And you can add the additional complication of this, even if you arrange another referendum, is the public understanding of what is at stake any better than it was at the previous referendum, have they bothered to any degree to educate themselves?
I think not.
Let it go ahead and the whole mess be so obvious to all that this time they think about what has been done in their name.

 

[oldtom]

The tory media is having a little difficulty finding material that they can use as 'Brexit'-positive headlines but still the dreamers see a future with a proud, independent nation leading the way in the modern, global marketplace.

The reality is that, like the Romans and like the Vikings to mention but two major colonising powers, Britain has had its day. The only assured future for the UK is that on offer from the EU. To go it alone will be economic and political suicide.

This is the reality now:




Unless these monsters running the UK for their greedy mates are consigned to history, this is the future:



Had the UK parliament listened when Teddy Roosevelt said this in the first decade of the 20th century, we wouldn't be in this tragic situation today:



Tom

 

[Zlatan]

Why aren't all these people so convinced of us failing post Brexit doing something that could actually affect something.
The audience on here numbers at most hundreds, what you are all saying could very well be true ( I,m not convinced) but there are a habdfull of you posting repeatedly trying to convince individuals. You may aswell shout the arguments in your garden... Contact your mp, lobby the government, organise a rally, contact JC, organise a political union between like minded..???
Repeatedly shouting down posters who disagree is quite pointless...
Apart from being able to say I told you so in years to come, which is futile.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Why aren't all these people so convinced of us failing post Brexit doing something that could actually affect something.
The audience on here numbers at most hundreds, what you are all saying could very well be true ( I,m not convinced) but there are a habdfull of you posting repeatedly trying to convince individuals. You may aswell shout the arguments in your garden... Contact your mp, lobby the government, organise a rally, contact JC, organise a political union between like minded..???
Repeatedly shouting down posters who disagree is quite pointless...
Apart from being able to say I told you so in years to come, which is futile.

I am doing all of the above, and more... (well I've not organised a rally - but I am helping to crowd fund one). Being on here and other places is a good way of understanding the debate, and honestly I do want to be convinced its a positive... so far no one has managed that. I live in hope.

 

[Zlatan]

And Tom's vision of utopia under labour is as misinformed as could be.
We,ve seen how JC and his supporters deal with people trying to tell the truth, showing equally close similarities to NAZI doctrine as May has done.
These actions are keeping us all misinformed about the most blatant act of racism this country has been part of.( 1400 white girls in Rotherham alone raped/ groomed , not a single Asian/ muslim.??? There are 2 sides to racism.)

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

the real difficult negotiation is between our two camps, the subject is how close to the EU we are going to be after brexit.
If we could have a national consensus, then the job of the negotiators will be 10 times easier.

errr... I thought there was more than 2 camps... you're in one, seeming to want EFTA, there is another Brexit camp that wants out of everything, and there is a group that wants to remain as it is. I'm sure there is a group that wants to remain with some reform of the EU, and I'm equally sure there is a group that want to remain and go further, ie adopt the Euro.

So that's at least 5, I'm sure there are more.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

And Tom's vision of utopia under labour is as misinformed as could be.
We,ve seen how JC and his supporters deal with people trying to tell the truth, showing equally close similarities to NAZI doctrine as May has done.
These actions are keeping us all misinformed about the most blatant act of racism this country has been part of.( 1400 white girls in Rotherham alone raped/ groomed , not a single Asian/ muslim.??? There are 2 sides to racism.

I don't think Jimmy Saville gromed or attacked any boys or asians did he? Does that make him racist and sexist then?

The crimes in Rotherham and elsewhere are sickening, but they are not racist., any more than they are sexist because they targeted women, or agest because they targeted young women.

 

[oldgroaner]

Why aren't all these people so convinced of us failing post Brexit doing something that could actually affect something.
The audience on here numbers at most hundreds, what you are all saying could very well be true ( I,m not convinced) but there are a habdfull of you posting repeatedly trying to convince individuals. You may aswell shout the arguments in your garden... Contact your mp, lobby the government, organise a rally, contact JC, organise a political union between like minded..???
Repeatedly shouting down posters who disagree is quite pointless...
Apart from being able to say I told you so in years to come, which is futile.

possibly for the same reason that people who support Brexit aren't doing a darned thing to make it a success.
There are no actual means of doing so, are there?

From my point of view simply reminding people is quite sufficient thank you very much, as what is going to happen will in fact in the end work out for the best one way or the other, in a timescale that exceeds my life expectancy, it's true.

The UK in a United States of Europe will inevitably come, that I won't live to see that is not relevant to the issue at hand.
Only patience, not action is required as let's face it Brexit cannot be stopped and why should it be?
It's a needed lesson in reality for the Public, albeit a tragic one.

"Shouting down the posters" from your point of view seems to oppose them using what information is available that damages the notion that Brexit will be a success.
Guilty as charged, and why not? where are the convincing counter arguments?

Even if we only make readers think about what is being done in their name, that is adequate reward, and as they say "From little Acorns, mighty oak trees grow."
Protests will fall on deaf ears, they will come soon enough to satisfy anyone, but only after Brexit.
Matters are out of the hands of individuals at this stage, and for that matter the Government too.
We are standing under an approaching avalanche, and can feel the breeze already.

Incidentally this thread is enjoying quite a following
"Replies: 19,397 Views: 331,798"
Amazingly even my 5,380 posts haven't put people off!
And no doubt many of those views are the Stalwarts at Menwith Hill.. Keep up the good work! etc., etc.

 

[Danidl]

I think you will find that the UK already contributes highly in regard to global standards - there is a bigger world out there than just the EU who are pushing for global acceptance of their homegrown standards.

https://www.iso.org/members.html

There is a bigger world out there, but none as wealthy as the EU block. It is the world's largest economy, and it starts literally metres from the UK. As I and other posters have shown, linking in to its standards is the smart move.

Why aren't all these people so convinced of us failing post Brexit doing something that could actually affect something.
The audience on here numbers at most hundreds, what you are all saying could very well be true ( I,m not convinced) but there are a habdfull of you posting repeatedly trying to convince individuals. You may aswell shout the arguments in your garden... Contact your mp, lobby the government, organise a rally, contact JC, organise a political union between like minded..???
Repeatedly shouting down posters who disagree is quite pointless...
Apart from being able to say I told you so in years to come, which is futile.

Regrettably you are 100% correct. I am in the slightly fortunate position that my views are aligned with my governments and all the opposition political parties on my island. A rare occurrence.

 

[oldgroaner]

here is a bigger world out there, but none as wealthy as the EU block. It is the world's largest economy, and it starts literally metres from the UK. As I and other posters have shown, linking in to its standards is the smart move.

Which is why they have superceded the old "British Standards" in almost every case, being accepted Worldwide.

 

[Woosh]

possibly for the same reason that people who support Brexit aren't doing a darned thing to make it a success.

remainers should also consider getting off their tower and help with finding an acceptable compromise. Unlike the referendum, brexit can be anywhere in between in and out.