Thats because you only speak to people who agree with you. The rest you ignore, belittle and deride as fools. And the result? You still can't figure out why we voted like we did.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Right. So let's get out and be good neighbours rather than bad tenants.
How many times must it be said, we do not have an EU immigration problem. Much of the moderate EU population here is here because we've recruited them, encouraged them or welcomed them. The few undesirables can be deported as so often made clear in this thread. We just seem incompetent at doing that.
The problem, if there is one, with those from all other countries is and always has been entirely under our control.
None of this will change with Brexit.
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Why is it so hard to sell free-trade these days? What has happened to us? Specialisation and trade is what has dragged this world from the dark ages of poverty to where we are now. But darn it if people love to fight the idea.
Singapore... has a free trade agreement with the EU.
European Union-Singapore Free Trade Agreement (EUSFTA)
The European Union-Singapore Free Trade Agreement (EUSFTA) is the first FTA concluded between the EU and an ASEAN country. The agreement will come into force after it is signed and ratified by both parties. The ratification has been delayed due to the European Commission's decision to request for a European Court of Justice Opinion on its competences with regard to the EUSFTA.
In 2014, EU was Singapore's 3rd largest global trading partner and Singapore is the EU’s 15th largest global trading partner and largest trading partner in ASEAN. Hence, the comprehensive and ambitious EUSFTA will improve Singaporean and European companies’ access to each other’s markets, and provide a stable and fair regime for foreign investors while preserving the right of the parties to regulate in the public's interest.
Go to some parts of Luton. I will show you an immigration problem. One that we can stop with some decent controls.
Great. So its not a problem for Singapore then is it?
Because its a world wide global market place. Its all interlinked and everything has consequences and knock on relationships. So you're in charge, you're taking us out of the EU, who do you want a Free Trade agreement with?
So we're about to walk away from that deal... that's my point.
.. Oxygen I was intrigued by the reference to coffee, so started to look at it. There is no tariff on green unprocessed beans. There is approx. 8% tariff on processed coffee beans or product . Eg decaf roasted etc. The reason for this presumably at the request of coffee blenders in Europe is to reduce competition from outside the EU. Whether this is immoral, protectionism you can have an opinion on. Certainly there would be an economic development argument as well as a logistical arguement to have the processing done closer to the source.. Africa and South America. This is what GATT should be about.
The added value gained by processing and marketing of coffee , would certainly allow for a bigger percentage going to the producer nations. Logically however they could put a tax on the export of unprocessed beans...
Well therein lies one main difference that no amount of arguing and counter arguing will ever likely change.
I do not consider myself 'European'. Along with many others. Do you know what the % is? Have a guess? What % of Brits consider themselves Europeans? 50? 40? Take a guess.
It's 15%. 15%. 85% do not consider themselves European. Its one of the main reasons (Hi Tom) we voted out.
"According to the latest British Social Attitudes (2014), when asked to choose as many identities as we like from a list of every national identity associated with Great Britain and Ireland, just 15% of us describe ourselves as ‘European’."
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/european-not-us-brits/
.. oh dear so the British are not Europeans, that will come as as a surprise to many.
I know Luton extremely well and have done for many decades, owning property there. There is no EU immigration problem there and never has been. The undoubted problem that does exist there has always been under our full control and has only come into being due to our pathetic administrative incompetence.
Leaving the EU will in no way remove that incompetence, those of us old enough know it very obviously existed before we even joined the Common Market.
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We might walk away. Because thats how you negotiate. You need to be willing to walk away. And if we do - so be it. You say 44% of our exports go to the EU. So they put a tariff up. Stupid but the EU can be pretty stupid. We've already lost around 10% of the value of the pound - which will compensate for some of that - the rest we'd just have to deal with. WE DO NOT WANT TO BE PART OF YOUR SUPERSTATE.
Apparently its a surprise to you. Now maybe you are learning how come we voted leave. You're hanging out here with people who won't tell you these things. They think like you. They are part of the group that lost the argument. You will continue to not understand things if all you listen to are people who agree with you.
Once more because you seem to have missed this:
"According to the latest British Social Attitudes (2014), when asked to choose as many identities as we like from a list of every national identity associated with Great Britain and Ireland, just 15% of us describe ourselves as ‘European’."
Why do many , or in the case of your survey believe an obvious untruth that they are not European. Do they not look at maps, do they not accept, that their forebears came from Denmark, Germany ( that's where the Angle). And Saxon
come from.
Is it some notion of racial superiority drummed into them by their betters?
come from.
Is it some notion of racial superiority drummed into them by their betters?
Yes. And we have to start somewhere. We will get to Whitehall and the civil service in due course.
.. which part of wafer thin majority is hard to grasp. 17 \ 15 was wafer thin.
I do agree with you that if one constantly listens to the same group that this groupthink mentality forms.. might you not also be affected? now I am not a UK subject, but a citizen of a republic, which is inside the EU. So I would like to think I have a greater degree of detachment from either of the rabid cliques around Brexit. Yes I accept that I was astounded by the result of the referendum, as it was in my opinion such self harm and I am grateful to you for explaining how such a state of delusion could arise.
The argument about the UK leaving the EU and how is not yet concluded.
You have been articulate in expounding the emotion which lead to your vote, but seem to have little grasp of how the EU works and has helped the UK.
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