July 11, 200817 yr Tour of Britain – Stage 3 , eZee vs Kalkhoff on the same route Sept. 9th. The stage 3 of the Tour of Britain take place on the 9th Sept , from Chard to Burham-0n-Sea, I understand is the most challenging part with 113 miles. Now these pros does it in 4 hrs 45 mins. all done with the muscle power, so there is no need for anymore Lycra dare devils to prove anything. If any of those pros would have ride a Pro-Connect instead of their usual competition bike he would definitely come in last and with a big gap, I would put my head on the block if otherwise. I have always maintained that the Panasonic system is only for utility riding and originally designed for Japanese grand mothers. I have challenged Mr. David Henshaw who wrote so glaringly about the Kalkhoff Pro-Connect in his recent issue no. 66 of the AtoB to ride this same route as stage 3 of the TOB with it, and I will ride my eZee Torq (our current model ). Initially I suggested we do it like in Presteigne with about 22 mph and finish this stage with 1 hr rest, making it in 6 hrs. David then proposed 10 hrs, and finally I think we should compromise with max. 8 hrs. Each does it the way he thinks best and to show what man and an e-bike could do. The pros in these races Tour de France or Tour of Britain , does it with an average of 350 watts. The 4hrs 45mins works out to be about 1662 wh. There will be no miracle for anyone, on the eZee we have 370 wh on a full charge, and the Kalkhoff has 270 wh. The eZee battery give you 37 % more energy, and output if it is in the same level of efficiency, and less if it has lower efficiency or otherwise higher. I need to bring this to the attention of every one interested. Each of us will take 4 batteries. As it is widely claimed that the Pro-connect would do 30 miles easily. On the eZee Torq, I have installed the Cycleanalyst www.ebikes.ca Homepage of the revolution This will be an available option in 2009 with eZeebikes. Normally I test the bikes with full power, and not the type of utility riding with 10-14 mph. Today, I test it, putting a potentiometer option on ( we have an option call the eZee Assist Factor ) setting the power level 3.5 from a scale of 8.5 . I rode from my home to the eZee’s factory with the following results : Distance 18.08 km 11.3 miles Ave.speed 19.17 kmph 12 mph Power consumption 70.66 Wh 1.754 Ah Time 56m 33s This is in ball park of about 50% assist ratio, with 70 watts average from the electric power and the rest with muscle power. There average power consumption on such a ride is definitely no more than 150 watts. This type of utility riding over level road, with no wind condition, I would be able to do 60 miles on a charge of the battery on the eZee Torq. I will be 58 in this Nov and weighs154 lbs with summer clothing and shoes on. Healthy but not fit in athletic terms. Anyone else interested to join in this friendly riding event would be welcome. I offer here 50% discount on eZee’s battery , Phylion or the new Li+ polymer for those who would participate in this ride with their eZeebike. You’ll get the battery on that day 9th Sept. Up to 3 batteries each person. Those who like this, have to register with me before the 19th July. ezeebike@gmail,com W W Ching
July 11, 200817 yr Tour of Manchester - Stage (daily both ways). Distance 19.8 Miles. Best time so far on ProConnect (medium power sixteen teeth rear sprocket) 55 minutes and 55 seconds (one third charge left in battery - heart-rate aerobic). So average speed 21.25 mph. I am a utility cyclist, but not a Japanese Granny
July 11, 200817 yr I have always maintained that the Panasonic system is only for utility riding and originally designed for Japanese grand mothers. To be fair, you probably would say that! But I suspect that a quick survey of pedelecers would reveal that most of us are "utility riders"; that is, we use pedelecs because they are useful in terms of getting from A to B. The Panasonic system may well have been designed for Japanese grandmothers, but it's reliable, efficient, and excellent at hill climbing. I have quite a few "gadgets" from Panasonic and I've always found them impressive. I've been less impressed with some of the stuff that comes out of the less well-known chinese manufacturers. It'll be interesting to see the result of the "race", but at the end of the day whoever wins is irrelevant to most of us. What might be more interesting is a comparison of who enjoys the ride most, but of course that would be rather subjective. As for the offer of 50% off batteries, that's all very well but who wants to end up owning 4 batteries?! Perhaps if you lent them out for the event that might be better. Peter
July 11, 200817 yr Go for it!! Hey, what a brilliant idea. Surely, this would be a unique opportunity to showcase the many magnificent hybrids we read about on this forum. The Wisper 905 SE, with three extra batteries, would easily complete this ride at a decent speed. How about the Cytronex. In the hands of a medium fitness rider, I suspect would be a very strong challenger with three extra bottles of pop!. I'm sure there are many more machines that could put up a very good show in the proposed event. Did we not enjoy reading about the good natured rivalry between manufacturers at the TOUR DE PRESTEIGNE. I know I did. Recently, there were calls for similar events to Presteigne, but in different locations, on this forum. So come on guys!. How about it! WaiWonChing has thrown down the gauntlet. I double dare you to pick it up!!. Best wishes Bob PS. Unless you want your sales figures to fall through the floor, please don't nominate me as a rider.
July 11, 200817 yr Mr Ching's ride 9th September Mr Ching I am very interested in taking part in your proposed event on 9th September and have sent you an email asking to be registered I have a few questions. I have a Ezee Forza purchased last October with a battery made in July (known thanks to your key to the codes stamped on the battery). I have experienced no problems with this battery and see from comments made by yourself and Flecc that the new battery might be 40% better. I would like to buy three batteries on 9th September and would be happy to pay for them in advance. Will you lend people who only have one battery three extra batteries for the day so we can complete the ride? Or will the batteries I buy be fully charged so that I can use them immediately? Will I need a different charger for the new batteries than the one I have for my present battery, if so, can I buy three chargers at the same discount (greedy I know, but if you don’t ask you don’t get!) Are you staying overnight the night before in a nearby hotel as it would be great to meet you and others before the event (and if the new batteries need charging I could charge them overnight. I have emailed your web site at ezeebike@gmail.com asking to be registered for the ride, it is a great idea. Looking forward to the day! Conal O’Rourke
July 11, 200817 yr What a shame, I will be working on that day and so unable to make it. Great idea though, Mr Ching, and I hope it is really good fun for all who take up the challenge.
July 11, 200817 yr This TOB race sounds like great fun but I doubt you could take much from the results because the race would be won by the strongest rider and would probably favour the most 'normal' bike, i.e. lightest, least drag and easist to use above its power assist mph.
July 11, 200817 yr hi are the bikes to be bog standard road legal bikes or is it anything goes because as a piece of fun its ok as an evaluation of the various bikes it is a nonsense bikes should be tested by independent testers like extra energy. atob are leaving themselves open to claims they favour kalkhoff like we see over the brompton
July 11, 200817 yr atob are leaving themselves open to claims they favour kalkhoff like we see over the brompton A to B have never made any secret of their liking for the Panasonic system, but on any bike where it's fitted, and they've very highly praised the Gazelle Easy Glider recently and the Giant Lafree bikes in the past, so it cannot be seen as a Kalkhoff bias. Had they tested the equivalent Raleigh Dover instead of the Kalkhoff Pro Connect, I'm sure their finding would have been the same. However, as well as their Lafree Comfort bike, they regularly use two eZee hub motor models, the Torq and Sprint, for various purposes, but the two types are very different concepts and systems and have different qualities in consequence. .
July 11, 200817 yr i agree it could have been the raleigh dover but i think it is different taking part in a fun event like presteinge and mr chings race which sounds like a grudge match against kalkhoff
July 11, 200817 yr Tour of Britain – Stage 3 , eZee vs Kalkhoff on the same route Sept. 9th. The stage 3 of the Tour of Britain take place on the 9th Sept , from Chard to Burham-0n-Sea, I understand is the most challenging part with 113 miles. Now these pros does it in 4 hrs 45 mins. all done with the muscle power, so there is no need for anymore Lycra dare devils to prove anything. If any of those pros would have ride a Pro-Connect instead of their usual competition bike he would definitely come in last and with a big gap, I would put my head on the block if otherwise. I have always maintained that the Panasonic system is only for utility riding and originally designed for Japanese grand mothers. I have challenged Mr. David Henshaw who wrote so glaringly about the Kalkhoff Pro-Connect in his recent issue no. 66 of the AtoB to ride this same route as stage 3 of the TOB with it, and I will ride my eZee Torq (our current model ). Initially I suggested we do it like in Presteigne with about 22 mph and finish this stage with 1 hr rest, making it in 6 hrs. David then proposed 10 hrs, and finally I think we should compromise with max. 8 hrs. Each does it the way he thinks best and to show what man and an e-bike could do. The pros in these races Tour de France or Tour of Britain , does it with an average of 350 watts. The 4hrs 45mins works out to be about 1662 wh. There will be no miracle for anyone, on the eZee we have 370 wh on a full charge, and the Kalkhoff has 270 wh. The eZee battery give you 37 % more energy, and output if it is in the same level of efficiency, and less if it has lower efficiency or otherwise higher. I need to bring this to the attention of every one interested. Each of us will take 4 batteries. As it is widely claimed that the Pro-connect would do 30 miles easily. On the eZee Torq, I have installed the Cycleanalyst www.ebikes.ca Homepage of the revolution This will be an available option in 2009 with eZeebikes. Normally I test the bikes with full power, and not the type of utility riding with 10-14 mph. Today, I test it, putting a potentiometer option on ( we have an option call the eZee Assist Factor ) setting the power level 3.5 from a scale of 8.5 . I rode from my home to the eZee’s factory with the following results : Distance 18.08 km 11.3 miles Ave.speed 19.17 kmph 12 mph Power consumption 70.66 Wh 1.754 Ah Time 56m 33s This is in ball park of about 50% assist ratio, with 70 watts average from the electric power and the rest with muscle power. There average power consumption on such a ride is definitely no more than 150 watts. This type of utility riding over level road, with no wind condition, I would be able to do 60 miles on a charge of the battery on the eZee Torq. I will be 58 in this Nov and weighs154 lbs with summer clothing and shoes on. Healthy but not fit in athletic terms. Anyone else interested to join in this friendly riding event would be welcome. I offer here 50% discount on eZee’s battery , Phylion or the new Li+ polymer for those who would participate in this ride with their eZeebike. You’ll get the battery on that day 9th Sept. Up to 3 batteries each person. Those who like this, have to register with me before the 19th July. ezeebike@gmail,com W W Ching -------------------------------------------------------------------------- i think this is a brilliant idea with perhaps one big flaw that will cost you entries, maybe many entries...getting 50% off a battery is great, even getting 50% off two is great for them, but three batteries is of no use to the majority of e-bikers....i imagine it will be a good opertune time for someone to do the race and sell off one of the batteries cheap afterwards, maybe even sell off two.....i think if i lived near i would even have a go..no chance of coming even second to last with my 15.5mph maximum..i could pedal i suppose and go even slower.:o ..(Quando)...i would then sell off one of the batteries maybe even two...a good days exercise, meeting other riders..well at least untill 250 yards after the start as they will be in the distance by then..:o and at the end of my sell off i would have a free battery.. and two other e-bikers would have a cheapie....all 3 of us happy....on this basis can you re route the race and make it a start from Hull and then i will happily take part... looking forward to new race route details..keith
July 11, 200817 yr i agree 4 batteries is a nonsense he opens up the challenge to everyone but how many people keep 3 spare batteries at home
July 11, 200817 yr i agree 4 batteries is a nonsense he opens up the challenge to everyone but how many people keep 3 spare batteries at home -------------------------------------------------------------------------- im probably wrong but i think if he makes the batteries or gets them dirt cheap then as its a ezzee promotion race as clearly the ezzee are the best bikes... ...all us on ezzee bikes should be given them free of charge for the day with a "thank you" for helping promote the ezzee range..(the best bikes. ) of one of the said batteries..after all they will be second hand by this stage and you cant sell second hand batteries.. .. or have i drunk one sherry too many
July 11, 200817 yr use of four batteries Baboon and myself have asked about the possibility of borrowing batteries on the day so I think we should wait for a response. I also think that, if we did buy three batteries each, there would be little trouble selling them on at cost price plus postage to forum members. We could even arrange this in advance and get the money a few days in advance to help with cash flow. We would have to check if the battery warranty is transferable but, based on the obvious and already stated opinion here, that no one would need four batteries for one bike, Mr Ching may allow transfer of warranty. We can only ask and even without the warranty 50% is a bargain. Conal
July 11, 200817 yr Paying out 50% of three batteries would be about £600 if my calcs are right. Thats a hell of a premium to take part in an Ezee marketing event. Think i could find better uses for my cash. It strikes me that Mr Ching is desparate to try and find ways to beat or better the german bikes. If I were Kalkhoff and 50 Cycles, I would take that as a huge compliment . For what its worth, I find my kalkhoff far superior to my ezee in terms of comfort and refinement which for me are the only areas that stand fair comparison given the drive units are so different. The way the world is currently going, there is more than enough room for both bikes.
July 11, 200817 yr Hi This is the first I was aware of this and frankly do not see the point, a Panasonic battery could do this with only 2.5 batteries. There is no way a Torq can achieve this on the same number of batteries. 4 BATTERIES IS MADNESS. All it means is that Ching can sit on his bike at full throttle at 22mph. It is a pointless exercise for us and not one we will be taking part in as we are too busy around that time in Europe doing shows. It would be nice to be consulted first. Thanks but no thanks. Enjoy your bike ride. Scott NB However if any of our customers would like to take part, we would be happy to lend you a spare battery Excellent. I am one of your customers and would like to take part. I look forward to receiving a battery for an eZee Torq prior to the event. Oh no, I forgot, I don't exist.
July 11, 200817 yr Mr Ching, Hello, this is quite a good idea, and I'm keen to enter - especially so as its not very far from where I live. I think it would be very useful to have a September race that complemented the Tour de Prestiegne - and with the race run on a slightly different basis. That said, however, I've got a few questions: How are you going to run it on the same day as the Tour of Britain? If its on the public roads then there are all sorts of issues, of which the question of road legal versus derestricted is only one. To be honest, a 100+ mile, 4 battery run sounds too long. Something about half that might make a good race. A 100 mile event might be better configured as an endurance type event - with each competitor allowed only a certain number of Watt-hours and having to carefully manage them. Above all though, I would like it to be both good-natured and well run. I hope that helps; I'm trying to contribute to the discussion rather than criticise. Nick
July 11, 200817 yr Tour of Britain – Stage 3 , eZee vs Kalkhoff on the same route Sept. 9th. I have challenged Mr. David Henshaw who wrote so glaringly about the Kalkhoff Pro-Connect in his recent issue no. 66 of the AtoB to ride this same route as stage 3 of the TOB with it, and I will ride my eZee Torq (our current model ). Initially I suggested we do it like in Presteigne with about 22 mph W W Ching -------------------------------------------------------------------------- just to clarify in my mind, are you the same mr Ching who in previous posts had mentioned that you would NOT be doing deristricted bikes anymore and would be sticking to the LEGAL 15mph speed..as i cant think of any possible good promoting a bike which you do NOT sell...and of course as you pointed out would be ILLEGAL to ride on our roads... regards keith
July 12, 200817 yr I was thinking about this a bit more and I should add to my previous post (which was slightly doubting) It is quite common to run more than one race at an event. For instance, at the F1 Grand Prix, there are a series of races and the F1 race is the big finale. At the Boat Race, the course is set up and there several races, finishing with the main race that gets the publicity. Presumably the same thing happens with the Tour of Britain, and if one of the "minor" races could be an electric bike race, then it makes a lot of sense and its a very good idea. All the questions about road legality and speed limits are answered because its a special course. The question about what's the point, and why a race of this length is also answered. If athletes on non electric bikes can do it, then its a target that people on electric bikes should be aiming at. To carp that it can't be done on a standard single battery is missing the point. It has to be a serious challenge to be worthwhile - and after all, the main race is being done with no batteries. If it can be done as part of the official event, then its a brilliant idea. Count me in. Nick
July 12, 200817 yr My guess is that this is intended on a different day, the 9th September mention just being the ToB date. .
July 12, 200817 yr Race Event My guess is that this is intended on a different day, the 9th September mention just being the ToB date. . Hi Flecc:) Will I be able to use my 'virtual' Pro Connect 53cm Gents in the race as I still haven't got my real one and probably won't have it by September either the ways things are going! I realized recently that the name I use on this forum (WALKERMAN) has become very appropriate, maybe I should change it to 'WAITINGMAN' I feel it might never become 'BIKERMAN'
July 12, 200817 yr Hi Flecc:) Will I be able to use my 'virtual' Pro Connect 53cm Gents in the race as I still haven't got my real one and probably won't have it by September either the ways things are going! Why not, using virtual current you'd have infinite range and power so should win easily. .
July 12, 200817 yr Hi Flecc:) Will I be able to use my 'virtual' Pro Connect 53cm Gents in the race as I still haven't got my real one and probably won't have it by September either the ways things are going! I realized recently that the name I use on this forum (WALKERMAN) has become very appropriate, maybe I should change it to 'WAITINGMAN' I feel it might never become 'BIKERMAN' From WAITINGMAN you can go on to FUMINGMAN.
July 13, 200817 yr Author Chief eZee Operator Hi, The Panasonic system is excellent in its own way, eZee at one time several years ago looked to this for our bikes, but decided strategically that we must develop our own that is different if not better. Otherwise where would we be ? There is Kalkhoff, Flyer, Gazelle, Helkama, Raliegh, Monarch, Giant, etc, etc using the same. What I am trying to do here is balance the informations (some bias to the extreme) flooding in very much in favour of the Panasonic system, it is one very small guy against many giants. I have already made clear in the first place, there is no need for the Lycra brigade to charge to the finishing line, there are already a very big bunch of pros who made that stage of the TOB in 4 hrs 45 mins., and we (mere mortals) are talking about 8 hrs with 4 batteries for us ebike cyclist. So for any meaningful information, we have to look at the physical fitness of the rider, and details of the electrical energy performance and hopefully work out what is from the body and what is from the battery over 112 miles. I figure a much longer trip with some hill challenges would be able to give a more accurate picture, rather than a 1 hr charge at the Presteigne. It is of course sometimes a little difficult to write very clearly what's in one's mind, as I am not a professional writer. Let me try again, if I ride the Kalkhoff ( Assuming I have nothing to do with eZee ) I could not possibly make this 112 miles even in 10 hrs, there is simply not enough energy in the batteries for me 270wh x 4 , but with 370 x 4 , maybe I could just about make it, if I start to do some excercise and training now. Best regards W W Ching
July 13, 200817 yr Author Chief eZee Operator Hi, Looks like there is several matters here that I need to reply. 1) This is not an organised race, it is a friendly riding trip amongst friend, with an intent to find out how our bikes and ourselves works together. 2) I do not know exactly at this time, if we could like take off 1 hrs after the pros started at 10.00 we start at 11.00 am and finish 3 or 4 hrs later. I figure we would not be more than 4 ot 5 people participating, maybe more ? I don't know. David Henshaw would help determine the final route and time. 3) Obviously Scott Snaith does not understand much about electric bikes despite having been in this business with eZee for a few years. It is not possible that I could just turn the throttle finish this 112 miles over some hilly areas with 22 mph assuming even there is no wind at all. If I could it will really show that I have a miracle product in hand. 4) From my experience of riding the 2200 km for part of the silk route, I could do an average of 22.5 km / hr 14 mph , so I have no need of a de-restricted motor. I am not a dare devil who could handle high speed either. 5) There is more than enough business or orders for me to handle, eZee sales has more than double this year vs 2007 , and will more than double in 2009 vs 2008. So this excercise is not about getting more sales, it is about getting the informations right. Best regards W W Ching
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