Tour of Britain – Stage 3 , eZee vs Kalkhoff
- Thread starter WaiWonChing
- Start date
Chief eZee Operator
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have not asked for a duel to the death nor am I seeking victory and glory, there is no need, I am quite confident the eZee will outclass the Pro Connect and it will become the Pro-dis-connect on such an event with 113 miles over some stretches of hills. You think 4 x 270 wh of batteries will beat 4 x 370 wh ? You think the efficiency of eZee bike is that much lower ? It is not any lower by any measure maybe even a little higher.
Energy consumption goes up exponentially with speed, and the bend normally takes place from my experience at about 14 - 16 mph. We will demonstrate what happen at 15 mph and what happens at 20 mph, and on hill climbing.
I just wanted to get if possible all the facts on the table, with all matters that matter totally on one picture, not a bit here, and a bit there.
I put up the challenge, and I will not be dictated by others with dates that are not possible for me. I have to travel from Shanghai, and I have a stand at the Eurobike show Sept 3 - 7 to attend to, and my schedule now for the ride on the 10th Sept. will not be changing baring some totally unforeseen circumstances. Sorry to disappoint those who think I would be there all by myself. I don't need a crowd , all I need is a few honourable gentlemen to ride with me and witness the event. I will have a Cycleanalyst attached, and I will also have a digital camera attached to the handle bar and I will take photo with date and time on it. There are at present 4 persons confirmed riding with me, including me 5, ( maybe another 2 may join in that is not confirmed yet,) and one of them is David Henshaw who will ride our new Torq. It is unfortunate that 50cycles is not willing to loan David the bike on that date, but it does not matter. What matters is we will record what happened on that ride by 5 different persons over 113 miles on the same stage 3 of the Tour of Britain with the eZee Torq , eZee Forza and our proto-type the E1. What could be done by Pros already in the news on Sept 9th don't need more Lycra team for that.
W W Ching
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have not asked for a duel to the death nor am I seeking victory and glory, there is no need, I am quite confident the eZee will outclass the Pro Connect and it will become the Pro-dis-connect on such an event with 113 miles over some stretches of hills. You think 4 x 270 wh of batteries will beat 4 x 370 wh ? You think the efficiency of eZee bike is that much lower ? It is not any lower by any measure maybe even a little higher.
Energy consumption goes up exponentially with speed, and the bend normally takes place from my experience at about 14 - 16 mph. We will demonstrate what happen at 15 mph and what happens at 20 mph, and on hill climbing.
I just wanted to get if possible all the facts on the table, with all matters that matter totally on one picture, not a bit here, and a bit there.
I put up the challenge, and I will not be dictated by others with dates that are not possible for me. I have to travel from Shanghai, and I have a stand at the Eurobike show Sept 3 - 7 to attend to, and my schedule now for the ride on the 10th Sept. will not be changing baring some totally unforeseen circumstances. Sorry to disappoint those who think I would be there all by myself. I don't need a crowd , all I need is a few honourable gentlemen to ride with me and witness the event. I will have a Cycleanalyst attached, and I will also have a digital camera attached to the handle bar and I will take photo with date and time on it. There are at present 4 persons confirmed riding with me, including me 5, ( maybe another 2 may join in that is not confirmed yet,) and one of them is David Henshaw who will ride our new Torq. It is unfortunate that 50cycles is not willing to loan David the bike on that date, but it does not matter. What matters is we will record what happened on that ride by 5 different persons over 113 miles on the same stage 3 of the Tour of Britain with the eZee Torq , eZee Forza and our proto-type the E1. What could be done by Pros already in the news on Sept 9th don't need more Lycra team for that.
W W Ching
ToB Stage 3
All
I am sure that all who take part, whether on the 10th or the 14th, will have an enjoyable day out. Just in case Ching's point gets lost in future postings, he has explained that he can't make the 10th because it would mean that would have stay in England for four more days. I do not interpret this as anything other than a statement of fact, and solely due to his busy schedule, which was why he planned for the 9th/10th in the first place.
I am sure that we will all learn from the two events - I think that I will learn that I am not as young or as fit as I think (and I think I am old and very unfit!)
Conal
All
I am sure that all who take part, whether on the 10th or the 14th, will have an enjoyable day out. Just in case Ching's point gets lost in future postings, he has explained that he can't make the 10th because it would mean that would have stay in England for four more days. I do not interpret this as anything other than a statement of fact, and solely due to his busy schedule, which was why he planned for the 9th/10th in the first place.
I am sure that we will all learn from the two events - I think that I will learn that I am not as young or as fit as I think (and I think I am old and very unfit!)
Conal
I don't think Wisper would condone the use of de-restriction on a public road and it would not be classed as street legal by them in this mode.
Anyway, I should think that a Wisper would put up a good fight with three of it's big batteries even in restricted mode.
4 batteries
Scott
I will be riding with Ching on the 10th, and will be carrying 4 batteries. I have read all the posts and can understand the many points of view.
My reasoning is simple. I do not know how far 3 or 4 batteries will take me. I do not think that carrying the third extra battery will make that much difference to the overall weight and would be annoyed (with myself) if, only carrying two extra batteries, I approached a hill towards the end of the route and ran out of power.
In a way the fact that we are riding a few days before the other event on a similar route is a good idea as this "trial run" will be of help to others. If on our feedback we give distance, speed, how we used power assist, individual weights, and other details, then this can be used constructively to ensure that people know how many batteries to take on the second event, or at least the power output we used.
Conal
Scott
I will be riding with Ching on the 10th, and will be carrying 4 batteries. I have read all the posts and can understand the many points of view.
My reasoning is simple. I do not know how far 3 or 4 batteries will take me. I do not think that carrying the third extra battery will make that much difference to the overall weight and would be annoyed (with myself) if, only carrying two extra batteries, I approached a hill towards the end of the route and ran out of power.
In a way the fact that we are riding a few days before the other event on a similar route is a good idea as this "trial run" will be of help to others. If on our feedback we give distance, speed, how we used power assist, individual weights, and other details, then this can be used constructively to ensure that people know how many batteries to take on the second event, or at least the power output we used.
Conal
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i have got a little lost here now...is the "other event" an electric bike run too ?....the "other" event will the riders there be able to take advantage of your battery knowledge and ask for "extra" batteries on hearing your postings or will they get stuck up a hill as dont have enough....
sorry if it sounds i have not followed this enough... i have but obviously missed the obvious
Well, Scott, surely the thing to do is to take 4 batteries and, as you stand there victorious at the end, you can hold up the unused one with the seal unbroken.
As Conal says, its better to finish the course and then see what you've got left.
Nick
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thanks Flecc...i miss a day and i lose the plot i think........
Right everybody here we go, having spent the afternoon with David Henshaw I think a few things can be clarified
The event on the 10/9/08 using the ToB route with Mr Ching is going ahead it seems at the moment with just Ezee bikes, Good luck to those taking part and have fun
The other event (which David has decided to call The Ching Challenge,in recognition of the fact that Mr Ching started all this off) on the 14/9/08 is also happening centered around the town of Beaminster, using a 20 mile circular route , for those taking part seriously they must try and do five laps of the route in less than eight hours with 3 batteries max. For others just wanting a good day out the route takes in some great scenery and nice country pubs.
More details of The Ching Challenge will be posted on A to B's website (A to B magazine, folding bikes, electric bicycles, trailers, sister publication to Miniature Railway magazine) over the next few weeks. If you wish to register for this event please contact David at A to B,
I shall be continuing to take comments on the draft rules so i can refine them and any other useful ideas people may have. I shall not be near a computer from 2/8/08 till 21/8/08 as I'm cycling around Holland, so don't expect any response then.
I hope this has cleared a few things up for people.
cheers
Riggo
The event on the 10/9/08 using the ToB route with Mr Ching is going ahead it seems at the moment with just Ezee bikes, Good luck to those taking part and have fun
The other event (which David has decided to call The Ching Challenge,in recognition of the fact that Mr Ching started all this off) on the 14/9/08 is also happening centered around the town of Beaminster, using a 20 mile circular route , for those taking part seriously they must try and do five laps of the route in less than eight hours with 3 batteries max. For others just wanting a good day out the route takes in some great scenery and nice country pubs.
More details of The Ching Challenge will be posted on A to B's website (A to B magazine, folding bikes, electric bicycles, trailers, sister publication to Miniature Railway magazine) over the next few weeks. If you wish to register for this event please contact David at A to B,
I shall be continuing to take comments on the draft rules so i can refine them and any other useful ideas people may have. I shall not be near a computer from 2/8/08 till 21/8/08 as I'm cycling around Holland, so don't expect any response then.
I hope this has cleared a few things up for people.
cheers
Riggo
riggo, everyone,
I'm glad that both rides are going ahead. In the circumstances that is the best outcome and I hope they are both enjoyable and successful. I would dearly love to come on the 14th but I can't make that date. It has also turned out that Mr Ching can't extend his stay in England until then. So that's the reason for a small group of us doing the actual ToB route on the 10th.
The Beaminster Ching Challenge sounds good and it has the potential to turn into an annual event. I hope it does.
This has turned into a long thread, and its got the wrong title for either ride. Perhaps it is now worth starting a new thread for the two rides. I have used the word rides because I think they should be seen as two facets of the same event rather than completely separate. The underlying challenge in each ride is to do 100 miles or more on an electric bike, without refuelling. Am I right in thinking that David Henshaw is doing both rides?
Nick
I'm glad that both rides are going ahead. In the circumstances that is the best outcome and I hope they are both enjoyable and successful. I would dearly love to come on the 14th but I can't make that date. It has also turned out that Mr Ching can't extend his stay in England until then. So that's the reason for a small group of us doing the actual ToB route on the 10th.
The Beaminster Ching Challenge sounds good and it has the potential to turn into an annual event. I hope it does.
This has turned into a long thread, and its got the wrong title for either ride. Perhaps it is now worth starting a new thread for the two rides. I have used the word rides because I think they should be seen as two facets of the same event rather than completely separate. The underlying challenge in each ride is to do 100 miles or more on an electric bike, without refuelling. Am I right in thinking that David Henshaw is doing both rides?
Nick
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250w motor
Hi guys
I have been following this thread with much interest and I must say not a little amusement!
We would dearly like to become involved (if appropriate) but I am still a little confused as to the rules. Please would some one confirm if a 250w motor is going to be acceptable in this event? I have been told by Riggo that it would not, however I was under the impression from the ad on the back page of last month's A to B that the Kalkhoff was also driven by a 250w unit.
Could someone please clarify this point?
Best regards David
Hi guys
I have been following this thread with much interest and I must say not a little amusement!
We would dearly like to become involved (if appropriate) but I am still a little confused as to the rules. Please would some one confirm if a 250w motor is going to be acceptable in this event? I have been told by Riggo that it would not, however I was under the impression from the ad on the back page of last month's A to B that the Kalkhoff was also driven by a 250w unit.
Could someone please clarify this point?
Best regards David
Whilst we are on the subject, is the Ezee range bought into the UK the Australasian/Singapore spec or the EU spec?
From the Ezee web site.
Electric System
Motor : 200W (Australia, NZ, Singapore ), 250w (EU) , 350w (USA) Brushless DC hub motor with planetary gears
Surely if as advertised both bikes concentrated on in this thread sport 250w motors, there won't be that many road legal entries on the day.
Best regards confused of Sevenoaks
From the Ezee web site.
Electric System
Motor : 200W (Australia, NZ, Singapore ), 250w (EU) , 350w (USA) Brushless DC hub motor with planetary gears
Surely if as advertised both bikes concentrated on in this thread sport 250w motors, there won't be that many road legal entries on the day.
Best regards confused of Sevenoaks
We are subject to the EU law on this David, and the old English law which should not have remained would undoubtedly not stand in a test case. Moves are currently afoot to enforce that position anyway.
If entries are to be ruled illegal on such a petty point the event will not be worth supporting anyway.
.
If entries are to be ruled illegal on such a petty point the event will not be worth supporting anyway.
.
2 50w or not 2 50w that is the question
Hi Flecc
I agree with you 100%.
I wrote the posts purely because when I asked Riggo if I we could become involved declaring we used a 250w motor, his reply was as follows;
"Does the hub run at 200w when in restricted mode? If this is not the case then I would class it as not street legal, wouldn't you? The law is meant to be black and white after all.
One of the points of this challenge is to show the public and potential consumers what street legal electric bikes are capable of.
It will be interesting to see which manufacturers/suppliers can put forward truly UK street legal machines?"
So I am still unsure of the rules, maybe it were best if Wisper simply did not get involved.
Best regards David
Hi Flecc
I agree with you 100%.
I wrote the posts purely because when I asked Riggo if I we could become involved declaring we used a 250w motor, his reply was as follows;
"Does the hub run at 200w when in restricted mode? If this is not the case then I would class it as not street legal, wouldn't you? The law is meant to be black and white after all.
One of the points of this challenge is to show the public and potential consumers what street legal electric bikes are capable of.
It will be interesting to see which manufacturers/suppliers can put forward truly UK street legal machines?"
So I am still unsure of the rules, maybe it were best if Wisper simply did not get involved.
Best regards David
With regard to Riggo's comment, of course this arises precisely because the law is not black and white on this issue. The Department of Transport has acknowledged this in stating that a test case is needed to decide the issue as it stands currently. Legal opinion has subsequently been that it's for the DoT to decide, so a state of limbo was left in place
Both 200 and 250 watt bikes are on the road legally in the absence of that test case or action to tidy up the laws on this. We now know that there is an intent to clear up this matter quickly, and that is certain to bring conformity to the EU 250 watt law since it is an obligation under EU law to comply with an order to do so. This clarification action is to satisfy the request from the Royal Mail prior to their bulk purchase of e-bikes.
A successful prosecution could be made impossible anyway, since an appeal to Europe would bring the certain ruling that our passing into UK legislation the EU order as instructed, which we did on 10th November 2003, made the EU law absolute, superceding the English 1983 legislation which only remained in force due to the Civil Service mistake in not making arrangements to rescind it it at the same time.
In view of all this, I can see no grounds for barring a 250 watt e-bike from any public road event.
.
Both 200 and 250 watt bikes are on the road legally in the absence of that test case or action to tidy up the laws on this. We now know that there is an intent to clear up this matter quickly, and that is certain to bring conformity to the EU 250 watt law since it is an obligation under EU law to comply with an order to do so. This clarification action is to satisfy the request from the Royal Mail prior to their bulk purchase of e-bikes.
A successful prosecution could be made impossible anyway, since an appeal to Europe would bring the certain ruling that our passing into UK legislation the EU order as instructed, which we did on 10th November 2003, made the EU law absolute, superceding the English 1983 legislation which only remained in force due to the Civil Service mistake in not making arrangements to rescind it it at the same time.
In view of all this, I can see no grounds for barring a 250 watt e-bike from any public road event.
.
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Challenge
Hi Scot,
I am sure you are absolutely correct and the event is as about as scientific as the one at Presteigne.
I just like any excuse to get out for a jolly!
I think it is now down to Riggo to cnfirm that 250w motors are OK.
'Pleased to hear you are so busy.
All the best David
Hi Scot,
I am sure you are absolutely correct and the event is as about as scientific as the one at Presteigne.
I just like any excuse to get out for a jolly!
I think it is now down to Riggo to cnfirm that 250w motors are OK.
'Pleased to hear you are so busy.
All the best David
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