Spot the difference...

[eddieo]

Yawn, the bubble and squeak twins never give it a rest....

 

[Kudoscycles]

Why would they think that if it also bore the legend, made in Germany, which those bikes will do.

Even with their other bikes, I don't accept that today's consumers are anything like as dumb as to not realise the facts of today's market. As much as thirty years ago most consumers were well aware of the oriental nature of much of what they bought, and that's even more true for the large numbers whose jobs disappeared over time in consequence of that fact.

Everybody knows that almost all representations of Britishness in hardware products are superficial, and that the chance of any consumer product being actually made in Britain is vanishingly small.

Shoppers for satellites and guided missile systems can be pleasantly surprised though!

Flecc,most product in stores has either no country of origin or honestly the country of origin but David Miall appreciates how important this union jack logo is to him. He appreciates it by having a 4 metre x 3 metre wall at bike shows with the union jack flag there for all to see and placing the logo on a prominent place on the bike.
Do you remember British Airways having ethnic tail fins and deleting the union jack flag,that must have been the marketing mistake of the century,Richard Branson immediately realised their mistake and took up the logo as the British airline,that must have cost millions.Similarly Royal Mail becoming Insignia. Both companies soon reverted back.
All these postings has given me a good idea.
Dave
Kudoscyles

 

[RobF]

Yawn, the bubble and squeak twins never give it a rest....

Pot, kettle, black.

 

[flecc]

We have noticed that many potential purchasers of electric bikes are older people, and many of them have middle class values.
To them, buying British and supporting the flag are very important -

As one of those "older people" I can assure you that we are more aware of the true position than any other consumer group. That's quite simply because as young people we lived through the period of the decline and failure of British manufacturing in the 1950s, '60s and '70s, watching it happen at first hand.

We of all people are well aware of the doubtful nature of any form of home manufacture representations.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I think the rest of the UK direct import industry,largely from China,has been amazingly patient with allowing this situation to continue,
Kudoscycles

Sorry Dave, I simply do not agree with you, our bikes are very clearly marked with their country of origin, the Union Flag is there to show we are a British company.

Electric Bikes For Sale | Folding Electric Bikes | Battery Powered Bikes | Lincolnshire, UKBATRIBIKE Electric Bicycles | Cycling Made Easy with Electric Motor Assistance

http://www.ebco-ebikes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/016-Standford-6204.jpg

Best regards

David

 

[jazper53]

Those links hardly a justifcation for misleading the poor unsuspecting public in believing they are buying British, maybe the law needs to be tested

 

[Kudoscycles]

Sorry Dave, I simply do not agree with you, our bikes are very clearly marked with their country of origin, the Union Flag is there to show we are a British company.

Electric Bikes For Sale | Folding Electric Bikes | Battery Powered Bikes | Lincolnshire, UKBATRIBIKE Electric Bicycles | Cycling Made Easy with Electric Motor Assistance

http://www.ebco-ebikes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/016-Standford-6204.jpg

Best regards

David

David,are those bikes manufactured in the UK?
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[flecc]

Yes David, and not just Ebco and Battribikes.

As Dave of Kudos has observed, Raleigh have been in the habit of putting the union flag on their wholly imported products. The Viking friction drive e-bike sold a little while ago at one time had a huge union flag logo on it, despite it being of course a largely Chinese product.

Is anyone fooled? Of course not.

 

[Woosh]

As one of those "older people" I can assure you that we are more aware of the true position than any other consumer group. That's quite simply because as young people we lived through the period of the decline and failure of British manufacturing in the 1950s, '60s and '70s, watching it happen at first hand.

We of all people are well aware of the doubtful nature of any form of home manufacture representations.

Flecc,
Question for you: at what point does a product deserve a label 'assembled in the UK' or a UJ logo affixed to it?
On a slightly different thread, we were discussing offering some customizations to our bikes. I mentioned that we planned to assemble crank drive bikes from around next October in Cambridge offering a choice of forks, rims and tyres. The UK labour input would be less than £100 per bike. Would we dare affix a label 'assembled in the UK' without attracting criticism?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David,are those bikes manufactured in the UK?
Dave
Kudoscycles

No Dave, they quite clearly state the bikes are made in China and Taiwan respectively, the point is both companies are British.

All the best

David

 

[NRG]

No reason why you couldn't take a leaf out of Whyte Bikes book as say 'Designed in the UK' They've been doing it for years AFAIK

R&D > Technology > Home > ATB Sales Ltd

Brilliant thread! Thanks for all those who so far have been involved!

My thanks go to all those who support my stance and of course to those that don't, I appreciate and respect your comments and appreciate the platform for letting me put my case.

On our website and frame, we clearly say where the bikes are made.

Just to make sure there is no confusion, our bikes used to be made in China using mostly products from Chinese companies. Wisper bikes are now made in Germany using a mixture of products bought from businesses from Germany, Italy, China, Japan, Taiwan and other countries. We love our bikes and strive to make them as well as we possibly can. We have moved to Germany so we can offer better products to our many customers.

Wisper is a British company wholly owned by British people, based in Britain, we are proud be British and to continue to use the Union Flag in our logo!

I love this business, so much passion!

I trust you all have a superb weekend.

All the best

David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Flecc,
Question for you: at what point does a product deserve a label 'assembled in the UK' or a UJ logo affixed to it?
On a slightly different thread, we were discussing offering some customizations to our bikes. I mentioned that we planned to assemble crank drive bikes from around next October in Cambridge offering a choice of forks, rims and tyres. The UK labour input would be less than £100 per bike. Would we dare affix a label 'assembled in the UK' without attracting criticism?

Brilliant news Hatti. If the bikes are assembled in Britain of course you should shout about it! We desperately need to promote the UK and bring manufacturing back from China.

I am very jealous!

Best regards

David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

No reason why you couldn't take a leaf out of Whyte Bikes book as say 'Designed in the UK' They've been doing it for years AFAIK

R&D > Technology > Home > ATB Sales Ltd

Good point NRG, we will certainly explore the possibility. This is a superb solution and would hopefully help those here that are having problems with our logo.

Thanks for very sensible solution.

All the best

David

 

[Woosh]

Brilliant news Hatti. If the bikes are assembled in Britain of course you should shout about it! We desperately need to promote the UK and bring manufacturing back from China.

I am very jealous!

Best regards

David

David

David,

Thank you for the vote of support.
I am not sure that it is enough though. Changing rims and tyres are not that difficult nor add much value when the parts are bought in- that's the point we were trying to make. We already do some of this as predelivery inspection anyway.

Hatti

 

[flecc]

Flecc,
Question for you: at what point does a product deserve a label 'assembled in the UK' or a UJ logo affixed to it?
On a slightly different thread, we were discussing offering some customizations to our bikes. I mentioned that we planned to assemble crank drive bikes from around next October in Cambridge offering a choice of forks, rims and tyres. The UK labour input would be less than £100 per bike. Would we dare affix a label 'assembled in the UK' without attracting criticism?

No, that would be wrong, but that's different from a flag indicating the origin of the company selling the bike. As I've already stated I don't see that the flag indicates the point of manufacture in this globalised 21st century in the way it might have done in the first half of the 20th century.

I do like your customisation venture though, it deserves to be very successful.

 

[GORDONAL]

Flecc,
Question for you: at what point does a product deserve a label 'assembled in the UK' or a UJ logo affixed to it?
On a slightly different thread, we were discussing offering some customizations to our bikes. I mentioned that we planned to assemble crank drive bikes from around next October in Cambridge offering a choice of forks, rims and tyres. The UK labour input would be less than £100 per bike. Would we dare affix a label 'assembled in the UK' without attracting criticism?

Not Flecc but giving my answer .......... you actually would have more right to use the Union flag than any of the other manufacturers in this discussion but I think a reference to earlier posts about local content percentage should deter you from doing this - whether 40% or so is a "fair" figure is debatable . Incidentally at what price point are you hoping to achieve with UK. assembled crank drive

Alan

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David,

Thank you for the vote of support.
I am not sure that it is enough though. Changing rims and tyres are not that difficult nor add much value when the parts are bought in- that's the point we were trying to make. We already do some of this as predelivery inspection anyway.

Hatti

Sorry Hatti, by "I mentioned that we planned to assemble crank drive bikes from around next October in Cambridge" I thought you meant your crank drive bikes were going to be assembled in Cambridge.

Best regards

David

 

[NRG]

If nothing else it sends out a strange and mixed message.

I'm not misunderstanding, I just don't accept that the flag indicates it's where the product is made.

Are you just misunderstanding that the flag shows the company making and selling the bike is British?

They are after all stating on the bike where it's made. Do you really expect me to believe that you think someone seeing a union flag and made in Germany on the bike won't understand that the company is British and the bike made in Germany?

 

[Woosh]

Sorry Hatti, by "I mentioned that we planned to assemble crank drive bikes from around next October in Cambridge" I thought you meant your crank drive bikes were going to be assembled in Cambridge.

Best regards

David

David,

The bikes are still bought with all the components - which are packed in smaller cartons.
Should a screwdriver operation which does not require much expertise deserve a label 'Assembled in the UK'?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Not Flecc but giving my answer .......... you actually would have more right to use the Union flag than any of the other manufacturers in this discussion but I think a reference to earlier posts about local content percentage should deter you from doing this - whether 40% or so is a "fair" figure is debatable . Incidentally at what price point are you hoping to achieve with UK. assembled crank drive

Alan

The 40% figure actually comes from UK customs,if more than 40% of the input is from EEC suppliers then import duty from China is reduced from 6% to 3.8%,but that would be a difficult battle with customs. If it looked like a non electric bike they would hit with a 48% anti-dumping duty!
David Miall has highlighted that this union jack logo problem is starting to become further spread amongst bikes which clearly are not entitled to carry it.
My first job on Monday morning is a letter to trading standards to ask their view on this important point. If they decide that the union jack logo on a product should be a UK manufactured product then the industry will have to fall in line,such fines from trading standards can be up to 10% of revenue so it is foolhardy not to comply.
If they decide that its ok to put a union jack logo on a product,irrespective of the country of origin,provided that the company is UK based,then that will mean that all of us will start putting Union Jack logos on every bike,so the advantage is nullified.
The latter would be a shame because the customer would be deceived by us all.
Dave
Kudoscycles