October 22, 201213 yr between : Wisper 905se City S Electric Bike 2011 15.5 AH Free Assembled Delivery - Wisper 905se Electric Bike 2011. City Version and: The Sirocco 2 | Electric Bikes from Woosh | electric bike sales & hire Seems to me the major difference is in the price.....£820!!!!
October 22, 201213 yr It's not as simple as that. The main thing, the motor, is different for a start, so is the controller amd the battery. I've not studied a Wisper close up, but I have an Oxygen in my shed at the moment, which is a similar sort of bike: Every fixing is stainless steel - every nut and bolt- as far as I can see. That alone would account for a chunk of the price difference. The Woosh Sirocco is a nice bike for the money, but so is the Wisper. You have to decide what you want and then decide how much you want to pay.
October 22, 201213 yr Thanks d8veh! I wasn't going to comment as the differences are so numerous, it would mean listing every component down to the spokes and detailing the differences!! Although I could use such an excersise to sell Wisper I simply don't have the time at the moment. I wonder what people will think of the new German made 905Classic that will be retailed at £1,799.00? There are a lot of less scrupulous Chinese companies that try and cash in on Wisper's success buy copying our style. The bikes are always cheap and never have the same components even the frame is completely different, ours is hydro formed. Fortunately I don't think they manage to fool that many people. I do wonder however about the companies that import these cheap bikes, why chose a bike that looks a bit like a Wisper, there are so many other styles to chose from! I would simply advise anyone that is even slightly confused to try both....... All the best David
October 22, 201213 yr Author I think the motor is the same (although wisper now offer a Japanese option), both have 15Ahr Li-po batteries, and the frames are aluminium. The weights are similar. Sirocco 2 Specifications: 36Volts 15AH Lithium battery Maximum speed 15 miles per hour Dual control: pedal assist and twist grip throttle range: 40-60 miles on flat roads with throttle control, more with pedal assist 20″ frame, 26″ wheels, suitable for average riders (5′ 4″ to 6.4″) Aluminum frame Motor: lightweight Bafang 8-Fun brushless rear hub motor rated 250W Brakes: front disc brakes, rear V brakes Saddle: Velo mens city style Tyres: Kenda 26″ by 1.95″ Battery charger for UK mains Weight (including all accessories): 25kgs bell and lights Guarantee: 1 year parts and labour, excluding consumables
October 22, 201213 yr What a charming young lady they have modelling the Whisper-look-alike.. that skirt looks a bit riske for bicycle riding..not to mention those shoes ;-)
October 22, 201213 yr Thanks d8veh! I wasn't going to comment as the differences are so numerous, it would mean listing every component down to the spokes and detailing the differences!! Although I could use such an excersise to sell Wisper I simply don't have the time at the moment. I wonder what people will think of the new German made 905Classic that will be retailed at £1,799.00? There are a lot of less scrupulous Chinese companies that try and cash in on Wisper's success buy copying our style. The bikes are always cheap and never have the same components even the frame is completely different, ours is hydro formed. Fortunately I don't think they manage to fool that many people. I do wonder however about the companies that import these cheap bikes, why chose a bike that looks a bit like a Wisper, there are so many other styles to chose from! I would simply advise anyone that is even slightly confused to try both....... All the best David David can't you take legal action against these UK sellers who sell these bikes, as the frame is so clearly similar to the Whisper design it's hard to tell the difference to the untrained eye..and as you say, they're obviously cashing in on your brand reputation and investment... surely there's legal grounds for these bikes causing confusion in the marketplace? A county court injunction on each seller perhaps preventing sales would be my approach. If someone blatantly ripped off the design of my products I'd be mad as hell and go after them with everything. Edited October 22, 201213 yr by morphix
October 22, 201213 yr Thanks Morfix, unless the frames are practically identical we would not win the case. I understand the thinking behind the way some Chinese companies are trying to cash in on our success. (I must point out that not all Chinese electric bike companies are the same and most would never stoop so low.) It is an easy way into the market, some go as far as to say that they manufacture Wiper bikes and others have the cheek to say they actually designed the bike! I was rather embarrassingly asked to leave an exhibition in Shanghai a couple of years ago when a guy told me that he had designed the frame and Wisper had nothing to do with it. The exchange that followed was to say the least "frank and short" also a little to loud for the security guards comfort. They did apologise in the end and let me go on my merry way! I find the best way to deal with is to be the best at what we do. You must also consider that they are starting from a position where they have to be cheaper than us.... or what's the point? So they cannot possibly use the same components, if they did the bikes would cost as much if not more than a genuine Wisper. I have to content myself with being a little smug when I see another Chinese firm trying to copy what we have spent seven years perfecting. That is shaded with a little disappointment when I see an otherwise reputable British firm resorting to such tactics. All I can imagine is that they are having a tough time. Anyone that had the budget to buy a genuine Wisper would never buy one of these clones, so like Rolex we simply let them get on with it. I don't think we actually lose any business. And one day perhaps they will be able to afford a real Wisper All the best David
October 22, 201213 yr between : Wisper 905se City S Electric Bike 2011 15.5 AH Free Assembled Delivery - Wisper 905se Electric Bike 2011. City Version and: The Sirocco 2 | Electric Bikes from Woosh | electric bike sales & hire Seems to me the major difference is in the price.....£820!!!! . As the TV ad goes: Just like a Golf.......................
October 22, 201213 yr This reminds me of the situation I wrote on an essay on last year and discussed with flecc, about supermarkets abusing their power and control over the food retail marketplace by copycatting well known brand food items like snicker and mars bars. Tesco even copy the colours of the packaging and the products are practically identical. The supermarkets can produce such well established products very cheaply without the product development costs and brand investment. The brand manufacturers are between a rock and a hard place, they can't very well sue or take legal action against the supermarkets who are after all their biggest market platform and could simply stop selling their products in retaliation..all they can do is see their market share shrinking to the supermarkets.
October 22, 201213 yr ROFPMSL ... go sue China I do rather like that Doris with the short skirt Hi Dave you have a point it would be impossible, did you see the Chinese BMW X5 on Top Gear? The Chinese Government concluded it was not a copy! Mind you I should say that I do not think the Chinese are a corrupt a nation! I especially like the bit when they simulated the Chinese safety checks by crashing the car into a mattress at 2 mph!! I think that Morfix is saying I should sue the importers, actually it may be worth considering! All the best David
October 22, 201213 yr Hi Dave you have a point it would be impossible, did you see the Chinese BMW X5 on Top Gear? The Chinese Government concluded it was not a copy! Mind you I should say that I do not think the Chinese are a corrupt a nation! I especially like the bit when they simulated the Chinese safety checks by crashing the car into a mattress at 2 mph!! I think that Morfix is saying I should sue the importers, actually it may be worth considering! All the best David Yeah exactly, you can't stop what goes on China as Dave probably knows only too well, their lapse regulation and dubious ethical practices of many businesses means its every man for himself... but in the UK, the businesses which are importing these Whisper clones know full well this is unethical and they're cashing in on another businesses hard work and investment. You can certainly go after these businesses and I don't think it would cost you much..there is even legislation on "passing off" and damaging the goodwill and value of a business and its products. If you took action against one firm and it made news, it might deter all the others.
October 22, 201213 yr One very, very last point..... Today Sussex Police ordered another five Wispers to add to their fleet of twenty Wisper 905se's. These bikes are used every single day by big burly coppers who travel up to fifty miles on them. They have used them for six months now and apart from the odd puncture and a couple of fuses they have had no problems. Now that's the difference! All the best David
October 22, 201213 yr Curious...is the Whisper 905 series a patented design? Or does it have patents on certain elements?
October 22, 201213 yr Author I'm genuinely confused here. The components on the 'look-a-like' match those on my 2008 wisper - and are admittedly cheap but work ok. Is it the case that the 2011 wisper on that link has had a £820 upgrade compared with the 2008 model?
October 22, 201213 yr One very, very last point..... Today Sussex Police ordered another five Wispers to add to their fleet of twenty Wisper 905se's. These bikes are used every single day by big burly coppers who travel up to fifty miles on them. They have used them for six months now and apart from the odd puncture and a couple of fuses they have had no problems. Now that's the difference! All the best David You should sell some to my local bobbies..I see the young WPC's out of breath pedalling around still on their unpowered bikes.. they have full size MTB's but have put some police stickers on them
October 22, 201213 yr Yeah exactly, you can't stop what goes on China as Dave probably knows only too well, their lapse regulation and dubious ethical practices of many businesses means its every man for himself... but in the UK, the businesses which are importing these Whisper clones know full well this is unethical and they're cashing in on another businesses hard work and investment. You can certainly go after these businesses and I don't think it would cost you much..there is even legislation on "passing off" and damaging the goodwill and value of a business and its products. If you took action against one firm and it made news, it might deter all the others. Thanks Morfix I think we will make enquiries, as you say this is blatant and calculated to confuse the unwary, it is undoubtedly passing off as our freind in Hackney has pointed out. All the best David
October 22, 201213 yr did you see the Chinese BMW X5 on Top Gear? The Chinese Government concluded it was not a copy! Mind you I should say that I do not think the Chinese are a corrupt a nation! Corrupt ... is a funny old word, lets just say that there seems to be a different method of appraising a situation. Morfix is saying I should sue the importers, O'h
October 22, 201213 yr There are quite a few e-bikes on the market which are similar to the two under discussion. Here's another: Volt Pulse Hybrid Electric Bike, Electric Bike Store I think passing off is a non-starter, products aiming for the same market will inevitably look similar. Medium sized hatchback cars is a good example. And beware the chicken and egg situation. Woosh might say the Wisper is an over-priced clone of their bike.
October 22, 201213 yr I'm genuinely confused here. The components on the 'look-a-like' match those on my 2008 wisper - and are admittedly cheap but work ok. Is it the case that the 2011 wisper on that link has had a £820 upgrade compared with the 2008 model? I can confirm Andy that the 2012 Wisper se bike is completely different to the 2008 model. I do not think one part is the same, but I would need to check. We really have come on a long way in the last four or five years and are just about to make another round of improvements. For instance the forks we use are now a magnesium alloy construction with lock out and pretension, and the wiring/electronics have completely changed, a couple of minor points but every improvement adds to the cost of the bike. I bet however you would be surprised at how many components on your 4/5 year old Wisper are superior to the one you mention. How is your 2008 Wisper going? I hope it is still working well for you? All the best David
October 22, 201213 yr "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", or as attributed to Emperor Marcus Antoninus in a conversation with himself, "You should consider that imitation is the most acceptable part of worship". I wonder if Woosh was derived from the word worship.
October 22, 201213 yr There are quite a few e-bikes on the market which are similar to the two under discussion. Here's another: Volt Pulse Hybrid Electric Bike, Electric Bike Store I think passing off is a non-starter, products aiming for the same market will inevitably look similar. Medium sized hatchback cars is a good example. And beware the chicken and egg situation. Woosh might say the Wisper is an over-priced clone of their bike. You are probably right Rob, but it would be fun to look into it and there are many distinct attempts at passing off, most are rather feeble though. Is it a coincidence that the copy bike black? I think they may have a problem turning the tables, we sold our first Wisper 905e about seven years ago! To be honest, I don't know why I am being drawn into this thread, we have had so many dodgy companies flatter us with copies over the years I have become quite relaxed about it. All the best David
October 22, 201213 yr I'm wondering if the phrase "A better mouse trap" as coined by Ralph Waldo Emerson in the late nineteenth century could apply
October 22, 201213 yr "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", or as attributed to Emperor Marcus Antoninus in a conversation with himself, "You should consider that imitation is the most acceptable part of worship". I wonder if Woosh was derived from the word worship. need not worry the lazy copyist's have set up a trotter stylee market stall in Peckham along with cyclezee:D
October 22, 201213 yr I have always loved the phrase Dave and try and live my business life by following it. Hence the constant changes and improvements over the last seven years. There are several great mousetraps available now, and we strive to stay at least in line with them! All the best David
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