Spot the difference...

[flecc]

We should send flecc to France where he can join the Academie francaise and its fight for language purity:

You and others have missed the point of my post.

My deliberate pedantry was a response to the similar petty attitudes being expressed regarding the usage of the union flag.

In a country where so many of our citizens disrespectfully use the flag in the form of shorts to cover their naughty bits, we are hardly in a position to be precious about other uses thought to be incorrect.

 

[funkylyn]

Yes it is to do with them, they too are consumer products* and they sell tickets for their "English" teams games.

* Consumer products are not just hardware, software is a consumer product for example, as is 20/20 cricket, the latter designed solely as a wide appeal consumer product.



Both makes built from largely Chinese manufactured components, both using Japanese designed products in some of their models and both with German built frames and some other components. Can't see the difference. Kalkhoff is after all just a brand name of Derby Cycles with virtually the same bikes sold under the English Raleigh brand name. Isn't that pulling wool over consumer's eyes?

The fact remains that no-one is being fooled in the globalised world that we are all well used to. David is merely proud of his nationality as a citizen of the United Kingdom and also proud of the company that he has built from scratch here in Britain. The company is British and where theirs or any other companies products are made is irrelevant to anyone not still living in the past of the pre-globalised world.

No Flecc, I think you are wrong.

I certainly dont live in the past, I only demand as a consumer to know where anything is made before deciding to buy it. I expect to be given the facts before making a decision.

I choose to buy German vehicles because I like them, I choose NOT to buy french apples because I prefer to support the british apple orchards.
It is MY choice to make those decisions once I have all the relevant information.
I also demand honesty from people I may do business with.

As an existing ebike consumer I already know that the union jack on wisper bikes does NOT make them british, however this is still, no matter how you try to justify it, confusing to first time buyers and that is what I object to.

We are all quite aware of the nationality of football players, they arent pretending to actually be british born when playing for a british team,( although personally I think they should be ) I think that argument is absolutely ridiculous and insulting to my intelligence.

I am also as aware as most educated people as to the ins and outs of this globalized world, as you put it, and knowing where something is produced is certainly NOT irrelevant, these days I think it is even MORE important and relevant.

Lynda

 

[funkylyn]

You and others have missed the point of my post.

My deliberate pedantry was a response to the similar petty attitudes being expressed regarding the usage of the union flag.

In a country where so many of our citizens disrespectfully use the flag in the form of shorts to cover their naughty bits, we are hardly in a position to be precious about other uses thought to be incorrect.

We arent being 'precious' or 'petty' flecc, we are merely wanting honesty and clarity when faced with making a decision to buy something.

Its nothing at all to do with clothes made of the flag for goodness sake.....that isnt being dishonest, its just being silly and having no fashion sense.

I am very surprised at you seemingly still not being able to grasp the points that are being made here.....or why you are choosing not to....

Lynda

 

[flecc]

I choose to buy German vehicles because I like them

But are they? The German car manufacturers manufacture in many countries and in the case of Mercedes have even placed that brand name on American designed and built products not long ago. They clearly don't think where a product comes from is important any more.

 

[flecc]

I am very surprised at you seemingly still not being able to grasp the points that are being made here.....or why you are choosing not to....

Lynda

I grasp that they are silly.

 

[funkylyn]

But are they? The German car manufacturers manufacture in many countries and in the case of Mercedes have even placed that brand name on American designed and built products not long ago. They clearly don't think where a product comes from is important any more.

The point is Flecc, that Mercedes arent putting a FLAG on the bloody car pretending its made where it isnt.....THAT is the whole point I am trying to make, and you seem to be intent on 'misunderstanding' that point.

Lynda

 

[RoadieRoger]

The Chinese makers of my Batribike had stamped Leisger Germany on the Controller casing which I must admit did give me confidence , but if they had put a German flag on there I would have peeled it off . Must be my age ?

 

[flecc]

The point is Flecc, that Mercedes arent putting a FLAG on the bloody car pretending its made where it isnt.....THAT is the whole point I am trying to make, and you seem to be intent on 'misunderstanding' that point.

Lynda

I'm not misunderstanding, I just don't accept that the flag indicates it's where the product is made.

Are you just misunderstanding that the flag shows the company making and selling the bike is British?

They are after all stating on the bike where it's made. Do you really expect me to believe that you think someone seeing a union flag and made in Germany on the bike won't understand that the company is British and the bike made in Germany?

 

[funkylyn]

but if they had put a German flag on there I would have peeled it off . Must be my age ?

LOL.....I can appreciate that way of thinking, and whilst still harbouring... ermm....how can I put it.....'certain feelings' in general about the germans.....I am a great believer in not 'cutting off my nose to spite my face' so am happy to still buy Mercedes vehicles....cos I just LOVE them ( but if they had a german sticker on I guess I too would have taken it off )
Not likely to have been just a sticker though where Mercedes are concerned ....more like a blooming huge metal stamp prominently displayed, in which case I might have thought differently about buying

We can be quite contrary us women when it suits us....you may, or may not, have noticed that during your lifetime

Lynda

 

[Kudoscycles]

I grasp that they are silly.

Flecc,I am genuinely surprised at your position on this,friendship affecting your impartiality,a virtue that I have respected from your postings. The points are not silly,to win sales by putting a union jack on a bicycle which is assembled in Germany,largely from asian parts is dishonest and possibly illegal, a long way from silly. I think the rest of the UK direct import industry,largely from China,has been amazingly patient with allowing this situation to continue,it gives Wisper an unfair advantage.
Even the 'made in Germany' inscription is questionable on Wisper and so many of these European supplied bikes, 'assembled in Germany' would be more relevant,so many of the bits still come from asia.
Whatever we discuss on this forum and the lions share of contributors seem to agree with my stance,we have to accept that we are a small number of dedicated enthusiasts. But if a potential ebike customer entered a bike shop and saw a union jack sticker on a Wisper bike he would assume that was a UK built bike which clearly is not true,flecc that is not silly that is dishonest trading practice and affecting the livelihood of other UK ebike suppliers.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[the_killjoy]

Isn't the parallel with Mercedes a good one, after all:

Whilst Mercedes-Benz are still headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany, where the main production facilities are located there are numerous plants in approximately 22 countries, including the U.S., Austria, Canada, Brazil and Mexico.

I do think that the appropriate phrase for Wisper probably should be Designed and Assembled in Britain.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I'm not misunderstanding, I just don't accept that the flag indicates it's where the product is made.

Are you just misunderstanding that the flag shows the company making and selling the bike is British?

They are after all stating on the bike where it's made. Do you really expect me to believe that you think someone seeing a union flag and made in Germany on the bike won't understand that the company is British and the bike made in Germany?

Flecc,YES I DO EXPECT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT SOMEONE SEEING A UNION JACK FLAG ON A BIKE WHEN THEY ENTER A BIKE SHOP THAT BIKE IS MADE IN BRITAIN.apologies for shouting
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[funkylyn]

I'm not misunderstanding, I just don't accept that the flag indicates it's where the product is made.

Are you just misunderstanding that the flag shows the company making and selling the bike is British?

They are after all stating on the bike where it's made. Do you really expect me to believe that you think someone seeing a union flag and made in Germany on the bike won't understand that the company is British and the bike made in Germany?

No Flecc, I am not misunderstanding, I, along with most people, think that the union flag denotes, rightly or wrongly, that the product is made in the UK.... as we also think about other products displaying the flag...we see that and buy and usually dont look any further.....

The flag is prominently displayed, I dont think the made in germany stamp on the frame will be.
The most prominent sign on the frame will obviously be wisper and that, along with the union jack will make the majority of the general public believe its made in the UK....and that, at the very least, is misleading.

Lynda

 

[Cyclezee]

That includes my daughter who lives in London, but was "Made in Germany", ..... with some British input

Hmm, just wondering, if she had "Made in Germany" tattooed on her forehead, dyed her hair blonde and wore sunglasses would that disguise her Oriental features


Am I completely off thread here

 

[funkylyn]

I do think that the appropriate phrase for Wisper probably should be Designed and Assembled in Britain.

The whole point is that they are NOT assembled in Britain........................

Lynda

 

[flecc]

if a potential ebike customer entered a bike shop and saw a union jack sticker on a Wisper bike he would assume that was a UK built bike which clearly is not true,

Flecc,YES I DO EXPECT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT SOMEONE SEEING A UNION JACK FLAG ON A BIKE WHEN THEY ENTER A BIKE SHOP THAT BIKE IS MADE IN BRITAIN.apologies for shouting
Dave
Kudoscycles

Why would they think that if it also bore the legend, made in Germany, which those bikes will do.

Even with their other bikes, I don't accept that today's consumers are anything like as dumb as to not realise the facts of today's market. As much as thirty years ago most consumers were well aware of the oriental nature of much of what they bought, and that's even more true for the large numbers whose jobs disappeared over time in consequence of that fact.

Everybody knows that almost all representations of Britishness in hardware products are superficial, and that the chance of any consumer product being actually made in Britain is vanishingly small.

Shoppers for satellites and guided missile systems can be pleasantly surprised though!

 

[funkylyn]

Hmm, just wondering, if she had "Made in Germany" tattooed on her forehead, dyed her hair blonde and wore sunglasses would that disguise her Oriental features


Am I completely off thread here

Yes you ARE John....please concentrate

Lynda

 

[Woosh]

Dave,
Wholeheartedly agree with you on this subject.
We have noticed that many potential purchasers of electric bikes are older people, and many of them have middle class values.
To them, buying British and supporting the flag are very important - similar to the importance of local sourcing for food products, as you have pointed out.
I cannot help thinking that Wisper were very much aware of this when being so blatant with their use of the flag.
We have spoken to a few bike dealers in countries such as mainland Greece, Cyprus and Malta.
When asked where our bikes were made, we told them. Some registered surprise and said that since we were based in Britain, they had assumed the bikes were made in Britain too.
It could well be that many people have assumed Wisper bikes to be British made and bought as a result.

Regards,

Hatti

 

[Kudoscycles]

Isn't the parallel with Mercedes a good one, after all:

Whilst Mercedes-Benz are still headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany, where the main production facilities are located there are numerous plants in approximately 22 countries, including the U.S., Austria, Canada, Brazil and Mexico.

I do think that the appropriate phrase for Wisper probably should be Designed and Assembled in Britain.

Killjoy,Designed in Britain....designed,possibly but the rest of us have considerable input from asian design,the chinese frame manufacturers have very good stress analysis facilities and expertise that would be hard to equal in Europe. One of my auto suppliers has 3D scanning equipment to reverse engineer a part,costing millions of dollars,none of my UK suppliers could afford that equipment-the company is wholly owned by the chinese government!
Assembled in Britain....nope,Wisper is assembled in Germany.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[muckymits]

I have a green and ethical BnB, when we run out of our own tomatoes we go to Tescos and look for the Union FLAG as we dont want tomatoes from Spain. If they were importing them and just sticking a Union FLAG cos they are being sold here I would be fuming as the food miles are so important to us.