How on earth does he get away with this?

[Fordulike]

Turbo911, I didn't post this thread with the intention of shooting the guy in the video down in flames. Ok, so I did call him a bellend in one post, but if he has fabricated the undercover police video, then I think I was justified in saying that.

Actually, I was just amazed how he brazenly rides around, passing many police cars, without getting stopped. A couple of the videos show him using the bike throttle only, but it's difficult to see if he pedals in the rest.

Anyhow, it's still not difficult to recognize that what he's riding is something a little different from your average Huffy. Even if at first glance a member of the law thinks it's a normal bike, then you would think that wearing a full motorcycle helmet would warrant a closer inspection. Excuse the pun

I am not squeaky clean by all means, but I would never expose my activities on YouTube. That's just asking for the local bobby to be on the lookout.

BTW, he really needs to change to road tyres and not ride roads on downhill tyres, if he wants to stop making out with the tarmac

 

[Wicky]

£10,000! Why doesn't the electric bike rider just get a way cooler Honda C90 for cruisin'.

 

[turbo911]

yeah no problem to me, the bellend comment is pretty good, i,m just surprised that a few of the comments about me owning and riding a stealth are so hypocritical and amusing i think i,m the only guy on here who's ever broken the law bad boy i am .....

 

[Wicky]

turbo911 Have you insurance (TPO, TPFF or FC) and a suitable motorcycle licence to ride your bike on the street?

Would you feel aggrieved if you or your nearest and dearest were injured in an accident by an uninsured driver/rider?

Also if you don't give a toss about anyone else except your need for speed else have you considered...

http://www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/when-vehicle-can-be-seized.html

"Reclaiming a Seized Vehicle
There are certain rules for drivers who can reclaim their vehicles if they have been seized. These rules will include:
>Valid insurance and licence details must be shown
>If a fixed penalty was issued payment must be made in full
>All costs must be paid including secure storage and roadside recovery
>Vehicles will only released to the registered owner or someone appearing on behalf of the owner
>Owners have 14 days within which to claim the seized vehicle
>Continual offenders may have their vehicles seized and crushed
The penalties and punishments for driving without insurance or driving inconsiderately do reflect the seriousness of these traffic offences. Driving without insurance can be extremely costly to the driver. Harsher punishments are available to the courts for uninsured drivers who are involved in road accidents that cause injury or lead to loss of life."

 

[turbo911]

Unreal .....

 

[Kudoscycles]

This thread caused me to look again at Ronnie Renner's riding of the KTM Extreme-E on the private test track in Austria,perhaps someone will load that video onto this forum,now that guy impresses me,the video is about 5 mins long.
If the guy on the Stealth Bomber can put together a video like Ronnie's ,in a legal situation then I would be equally impressed but riding pavements,falling off at 2 mph,let's be honest it's not exactly Steve McQueen!
Note Ronnie is sponsored by Stealth,in a state where power of e-bikes is unlimited.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Unreal .....

Are you better at riding your Stealth better than the OP? Or are you the OP?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Agree with that totally. I see more normal "pedal only "MTB cyclists acting like total hooligans on the cycle tracks , than any of the riders I know and see here in jersey that have greater than 250watt e-bikes.
I the past 5 years I have completed over 16,000 miles on mine, commotion every day to work..often slower than pedal cyclists on the cycle tracks, when the conditions dictate. And my bike is (well, was. ) more powerful than the Stealth. Running at 100 volts it was doing bursts of 140 amps..that is 14kW. I tuned it down to about 8kW.

Never had an issue, accident or even incident in all those miles. I do to have motorbike, but I use it as a different means of transport..so no 'frustrated motorcycle rider syndrome' If I want to go on the motorbike I can

Now the whole issue of illegal bikes has become more known about in Jersey, I have stopped riding it and gone back to the car for every day commuting, and turned the bike down to 250 watt and 15mph PAS only ..which makes it pretty pointless vehicle for my needs.


But even Kudos admits that people complain about the speed limit power cut out issue..and try to get around it..and then they are happy..so they in effect now have illegal bikes too

Neil....what was the catalyst that caused you to stop riding your illegal around Jersey? I am not happy about customers changing the cutoff speed on my bikes,it happens,like guys screw up the boost on a turbo car but the default setting of any EN15194 bike is legal,it is customer choice and their responsibility to make it illegal....the Stealth Bomber can never be pedelec legal.
KudosDave

 

[craiggor]

Neil....what was the catalyst that caused you to stop riding your illegal around Jersey? I am not happy about customers changing the cutoff speed on my bikes,it happens,like guys screw up the boost on a turbo car but the default setting of any EN15194 bike is legal,it is customer choice and their responsibility to make it illegal....the Stealth Bomber can never be pedelec legal.
KudosDave

I can see the 2018 regs bringing in tamper proof speed settings.just like a l1e-a needs to pass the MSVA.

 

[flecc]

I guess that's where our interpretations of the law differ. A Cycle Analyst does not equate to an 'off-road button' in my eyes.

You surprise me. Clearly the DfT isn't literally meaning a single button marked "Off-Road". Usage is the key. As the law makes absolutely clear, if a means of exceeding the legal assist limit is under a rider's control at any time, and that method is used, the pedelec becomes an illegal motor vehicle.

An e-bike can be legally supplied in any form, but if it has a Cycle Analyst or similar which allows illegal assist speeds to be set by the rider, it is not a legal pedelec and a manufacturer or other supplier must not describe it as such.

I'm also now wondering what the difference is between 'dongle capable', and say, a speed limiting reed switch supplied without the means to defeat it.

"Dongle capable" isn't illegal, without the dongle the bike hasn't been modified to defeat the law. With a dongle in place the bike becomes a motor vehicle and the dongle is just another form of "off-road" button.
.

 

[soundwave]

the ktm is 10k as well

 

[danielrlee]

...the Stealth Bomber can never be pedelec legal.
KudosDave

Really interested about why you believe this to be true. With a couple of minor modifications, I'm pretty sure that Stealth could make it legal for the EU market if they wanted to.

 

[flecc]

I can see the 2018 regs bringing in tamper proof speed settings.just like a l1e-a needs to pass the MSVA.

Yes, the 2018 introduction is type approval and SVA for throttle equipped pedelecs. Type approval and SVA law always specifies that modification away from the approved form is illegal and that will continue to be the case.
.

 

[danielrlee]

You surprise me. Clearly the DfT isn't literally meaning a single button marked "Off-Road". Usage is the key. As the law makes absolutely clear, if a means of exceeding the legal assist limit is under a rider's control at any time, and that method is used, the pedelec becomes an illegal motor vehicle.

An e-bike can be legally supplied in any form, but if it has a Cycle Analyst or similar which allows illegal assist speeds to be set by the rider, it is not a legal pedelec and a manufacturer or other supplier must not describe it as such.



"Dongle capable" isn't illegal, without the dongle the bike hasn't been modified to defeat the law. With a dongle in place the bike becomes a motor vehicle and the dongle is just another form of "off-road" button.
.

Accepting this as fact only leads us to the conclusion, that many retailers who HONESTLY believe they are offering legal bikes are in fact not.

Any retailers in this boat want to comment?

 

[flecc]

Accepting this as fact only leads us to the conclusion, that many retailers that HONESTLY believe they are offering legal bikes are in fact not.

Any retailers in this boat want to comment?

You are taking this beyond what I posted, I was referring to the Cycle Analyst which owners sometimes fit and use to defeat assist speed limits.

If a supplier sells a pedelec with a programmable display that is pre-programmed to limit to the correct assist speed, it can be described at point of sale as a legal pedelec, apparently without committing any offence.

But as I posted before, it's arguable that such a vehicle isn't a legal pedelec since the rider has under their direct control the means of defeating the law. At present that view would have to be tested in a court.

But in January 2018 my view may be proven. Then any pedelec with a throttle will have to be type approved/SVA but can still be considered a legal pedelec if conforming in all other respects. Testing for type approval will expose the rider control allowing illegal assist speed which will bar approval as a legal pedelec and it will then fall under the L1e-B moped law.

Since that type approval would rule the rider excess speed control barred it from being a pedelec, the same will also be true of any pedelec without a throttle.

In case you doubt this, I'm quoting the existing type approval rules on "30mph" mopeds, where any rider means of defeating the speed limit without physical modifying the vehicle bars it from being a moped.

Incidentally, in EU law which also applies here, there are specific mentions of the illegality of "defeat" devices.
.

 

[danielrlee]

No wonder there haven't been any actual legal cases put through the courts. With the mess of laws and legislation that currently stands, I doubt the CPS would want to touch it with a ten foot barge pole.

 

[danielrlee]

You are taking this beyond what I posted, I was referring to the Cycle Analyst which owners sometimes fit and use to defeat assist speed limits.
.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I dont think I am. A Cycle Analyst is no different than any other adjustable console. It is simply a limiting device. It cannot affect a bike to achieve something it couldn't do without the Cycle Analyst.

 

[flecc]

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I dont think I am. A Cycle Analyst is no different than any other adjustable console. It is simply a limiting device. It cannot affect a bike to achieve something it couldn't do without the Cycle Analyst.

I wasn't viewing this discussion as an argument either, just as interesting.

I only knew the Cycle Analyst under it's old name of DrainBrain (yes really!) long ago so didn't know anything about the latest versions. Of course I understand that it can't improve on what a bike does, but I believe some are using it on illegal bikes to be able to program down to legality. That's the form I was referring to.
.

 

[danielrlee]

Flecc, IMO you are the single most knowledgeable person I have encountered when it comes to UK pedelec law. If you can't come to an easily definable conclusion, what hope do the rest of us have?

 

[anotherkiwi]

Don't forget that the top speed of a moped or s-pedelec is 45 kph. That is under all conditions, even pedalling down a steep hill or mountain with no motor assist. The top speed of a pedelec in similar conditions is as fast as the rider can go before getting scared or, in France, 90 kph which ever comes first.