How on earth does he get away with this?

[EddiePJ]

turbo911, did you actually read what flecc has just written?

Just to try to help it sink in, here it is again.

"a pedelec is limited to a 250 watts rating. Anything above that is classified as a moped or motorcycle, regardless of whether it has pedals or not".

It isn't a case of particular forum members approving or disapproving, it is UK written law, end of!

It's like banging your head against brick wall on here sometimes!





.

 

[turbo911]

turbo911, did you actually read what flecc has just written?

Just to try to help it sink in, here it is again.

"a pedelec is limited to a 250 watts rating. Anything above that is classified as a moped or motorcycle, regardless of whether it has pedals or not".

It isn't a case of particular forum members approving or disapproving, it is UK written law, end of!

It's like banging your head against brick wall on here sometimes!





.

if you feel like that why would you post ?? you could be out riding and posting pics on here like heres a pic of my bike in a field and here is another one and another one and another one and here is a pic of my bike on a muddy track and another one and another one...... i know its written law thats why there illegal,

 

[flecc]

ohh i see i had missed the point !! they are pedlecs end of !!! just illegal ones

No they are not pedelecs. You seem to be interpreting the word pedelec as universally applying to everything electric motored with pedals,

That's wrong on two counts.

First, the word pedelec came from mainland Europe and was expressly only the name for a legal 250 watt EPAC/EAPC.

There is a word for a motor and pedals machine, and that is Moped, meaning literally motor and pedals. These originally existed in various forms and the Chinese still make them, but with few here the DfT also uses the Moped name for those that have lost their pedals.

So in language terms these stealth bikes are mopeds, even when illegally fast at over 30 mph, but never pedelecs.
.

 

[EddiePJ]

Thank you turbo911, another couple of hours and I will be out riding. Legally as well.

 

[turbo911]

Thank you turbo911, another couple of hours and I will be out riding. Legally as well.

i hope you enjoy eddie and stay safe ......

 

[turbo911]

No they are not pedelecs. You seem to be interpreting the word pedelec as universally applying to everything electric motored with pedals,

That's wrong on two counts.

First, the word pedelec came from mainland Europe and was expressly only the name for a legal 250 watt EPAC/EAPC.

There is a word for a motor and pedals machine, and that is Moped, meaning literally motor and pedals. These originally existed in various forms and the Chinese still make them, but with few here the DfT also uses the Moped name for those that have lost their pedals.

So in language terms these stealth bikes are mopeds, even when illegally fast at over 30 mph, but never pedelecs.
.

i stand corrected please accept my apologies i wasn't aware of the law to the pinnacle of you guys, the point i was and I'm still trying to make is there are a few of us out there on stealths and other illegal bikes and we don't go out riding to cause trouble and break the law because we have illegal powerful bikes we go out for the same reason as every rider who rides a pedlec or ebike, I'm just really surprised how if illegal we get so frowned at again apologies i stand corrected ......

 

[EddiePJ]

I quite often see a lad around here on a Stealth. He commute's to work on it, and has done for a couple of years. Being fair to him, he rides very responsibly, and I've yet to see him not pedalling, even if it is just going through the motions.

He rides in all weather conditions, and I often feel grateful for being sat inside my warm van when I see him in the pouring rain, or freezing cold.

 

[soundwave]

this is fast

 

[flecc]

i stand corrected please accept my apologies i wasn't aware of the law to the pinnacle of you guys, the point i was and I'm still trying to make is there are a few of us out there on stealths and other illegal bikes and we don't go out riding to cause trouble and break the law because we have illegal powerful bikes we go out for the same reason as every rider who rides a pedlec or ebike, I'm just really surprised how if illegal we get so frowned at again apologies i stand corrected ......

Thanks Turbo911, no apology necessary. We are a bit sensitive and protective about the word pedelec for various reasons, most particularly their bureacracy free status. Getting the meaning mixed up with machines classified as needing registration etc is a risk we want to avoid to keep our freedom.

I also think the reason many have for frowning at illegal stealth bikes is the bad name they could give all e-bikes when used by irresponsible types. Unfortunately there's plenty of those, as well as those who behave well.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

i stand corrected please accept my apologies i wasn't aware of the law to the pinnacle of you guys, the point i was and I'm still trying to make is there are a few of us out there on stealths and other illegal bikes and we don't go out riding to cause trouble and break the law because we have illegal powerful bikes we go out for the same reason as every rider who rides a pedlec or ebike, I'm just really surprised how if illegal we get so frowned at again apologies i stand corrected ......

Turbo....are you saying that you bought a Stealth without understanding the pedelec law? You spent £10k without figuring out where you could ride this motorbike? Have you registered it as a motorbike?
These bikes make a noise like a load of circular saws,I just cannot believe you haven't been challenged riding it. Down our way on cycle trails you would be stopped constantly by true cyclists,quite forcibly at times!!!!!!
No right thinking person could ever consider a 5kw machine as a bicycle,it is a motorbike.
The problem we all have about you guys riding these bikes on cycle trails or the highway is the 'tarred with the same brush syndrome'....I get a lot of enjoyment legally riding my legal e-bike along the seafront,the oyster trail is a delight from Whistable to Margate. Myself and fellow cyclists had to lobby the council to get the right to do so,we join with dog walkers,ramblers and kids,it requires consideration by all to make it work safely....it only needs one high powered electric motorbike to cause the council to ban electric bikes and spoil enjoyment for many.
Sometimes I get questioned about the legality of using a pedelec on the seafront,I explain the rules and power limits carefully and with courtesy walkers are often very interested.
KudosDave

 

[danielrlee]

Just playing devils advocate here for a moment....

What's stopping Stealth from getting Crystalyte to under rate the beefy DD hub motor as 250W and then shipping the bike limited to a max speed of 15.5mph configured at the Cycle Analyst? Wouldn't it then be UK legal?

 

[git-r]

The way I see it we are all just dragging our heels with ebikes and the ridiculous 15mph limit.

Kudos- I hope you don't mind me saying but I think you're being short sighted with your view.

- think about no 15mph limit and a legal way of riding the s pedelcs. Your general customer base wouldn't just be the over 60's, it'd be the whole of London.

Average commute to London? ... maybe 10 miles? ... with a 15mph limit you'd be lucky to average 10mph. On a push bike you can average 15 mph... hmmmmm... time is precious..

Population - 8 million..

London spends an astronomical amount of money on transport and has the most expensive commute in the world. It's not comparable to anywhere else.

Why don't you and the rest of the traders get together and push for a change? - surely it'd be a good thing?

 

[flecc]

Just playing devils advocate here for a moment....

What's stopping Stealth from getting Crystalyte to under rate the beefy DD hub motor as 250W and then shipping the bike limited to a max speed of 15.5mph configured at the Cycle Analyst? Wouldn't it then be UK legal?

No, because the user has control of the Cycle Analyst. With a more fixed limitation to 15.5 mph it could be legal.
.

 

[flecc]

Kudos- I hope you don't mind me saying but I think you're being short sighted with your view.

- think about no 15mph limit and a legal way of riding the s pedelcs. Your general customer base wouldn't just be the over 60's, it'd be the whole of London.

Jumping to his defence, KudosDave isn't posting about the S class, he just wants the ordinary pedelecs to remain the same

Why don't you and the rest of the traders get together and push for a change? - surely it'd be a good thing?

The trade has pushed the DfT to try to get approval for the S class and continues to do so. Kudos Dave is not opposed to that. At present the DfT are opposed to having the S class.

What you seem to be missing is that the S class has restrictions everywhere. They have to be registered, have a number plate and have vehicle third party insurance, and they are banned from cycle paths, shared paths, bridleways and Sustrans routes. Current moves may mean they will have to be type approved and riders may be required to have a group Q driving licence in future.

That's why in Germany where they can buy either, only a small minority buy an S class bike, pedelecs dominate their market.
.

 

[soundwave]

problem is no 1 would buy 1 as no way you could ride that with no power assist.

i was looking at getting a bomber till i seen the weight of it. its a tank

 

[git-r]

Flecc - thanks for the reply - sorry, I hadn't missed that the S class has restrictions everywhere. I didn't think it possible to register and use them in the UK though?

I read that actually demand for s class bikes is increasing, can't remember where from though - will try and find it

edit - great to hear the trade is pushing for change... hopefully something will happen soon!

 

[Kudoscycles]

The way I see it we are all just dragging our heels with ebikes and the ridiculous 15mph limit.

Kudos- I hope you don't mind me saying but I think you're being short sighted with your view.

- think about no 15mph limit and a legal way of riding the s pedelcs. Your general customer base wouldn't just be the over 60's, it'd be the whole of London.

Average commute to London? ... maybe 10 miles? ... with a 15mph limit you'd be lucky to average 10mph. On a push bike you can average 15 mph... hmmmmm... time is precious..

Population - 8 million..

London spends an astronomical amount of money on transport and has the most expensive commute in the world. It's not comparable to anywhere else.

Why don't you and the rest of the traders get together and push for a change? - surely it'd be a good thing?

It isn't going to happen,BEBA is supposed to be the trade body representing the industry. They have been lobbying the Dft for years to keep throttles,we all know the outcome....to try to get S-class in the UK,as a result of trade lobbying,you might as well try to ride to the space station!
The only way S-class will happen here is if the Dft find it an expedient solution out of a problem of their making or the EU forces it on us.
As flecc has pointed out S-class isn't to everyone's taste,you can only ride them on the highway and with much regulation.
Those who want to find a way round the 15 mph limit have already done so but it hasn't caused an explosion in e-bike sales.
I personally think the industry isn't offering precisely the right bikes at the moment but the concept is still evolving.
KudosDave

 

[danielrlee]

No, because the user has control of the Cycle Analyst. With a more fixed limitation to 15.5 mph it could be legal.
.

What's the difference between that and other controllers limited at their display consoles, or even unplugging the limit wire on your typical china controller? Have you ever played with a cycle analyst? Reprogramming the speed limit from the console is not something you can easily do while riding.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Flecc - thanks for the reply - sorry, I hadn't missed that the S class has restrictions everywhere. I didn't think it possible to register and use them in the UK though?

I read that actually demand for s class bikes is increasing, can't remember where from though - will try and find it

edit - great to hear the trade is pushing for change... hopefully something will happen soon!

Sorry to disappoint you but I see nor hear of any push by the e-bike industry,certainly no lobby for change. I think most of us take matters retrospectively and make the most of the law as we personally interpret it,
I personally think the 15 mph limit is at a poor threshold point,it's just on the cruise for most of us....but that limit is becoming a worldwide limit so it's almost impossible that the UK will increase it.
As a designer it's interesting to work within the law,it makes us achieve the maximum within the limits of the rule,The performance of these bikes has been transformed over the last 5 years....5 years ago the Dutch style bikes weighed 30 kgs,all tail end heavy,basic PAS control,low torque motors.
Now we have the weight down to low 20 kgs,better battery positions,the King Display gives a lot more control and the BPM motors have much higher low speed torque. During that time prices have remained pretty much the same. What will these bikes be like 5 years hence?
KudosDave

 

[git-r]

It isn't going to happen,BEBA is supposed to be the trade body representing the industry. They have been lobbying the Dft for years to keep throttles,we all know the outcome....to try to get S-class in the UK,as a result of trade lobbying,you might as well try to ride to the space station!
The only way S-class will happen here is if the Dft find it an expedient solution out of a problem of their making or the EU forces it on us.
As flecc has pointed out S-class isn't to everyone's taste,you can only ride them on the highway and with much regulation.
Those who want to find a way round the 15 mph limit have already done so but it hasn't caused an explosion in e-bike sales.
I personally think the industry isn't offering precisely the right bikes at the moment but the concept is still evolving.
KudosDave

Thanks for the reply. Maybe it's difficult for the BEBA to really push something?

I disagree though, one day it will happen.. I hope