Brexit, for once some facts.

[soundwave]

Only because millions have had jab for you and endowed you with some protection.

err no as from the start no one round here took any notice what so ever and to date i dont know anyone that has had it bar a positive test and no symptoms.

and no one i know has had the vaccine either same as the 3 staff that work in the local shop that serves 1000s of ppl a week not 1 day of sick.

and at the end of the day you can have as many booster jabs as you want it will not stop you getting it transmitting it or it killing you no matter what mutated strain it is as been doing the same thing for thousands of years.

this will only end when the testing centers are gone if there going to do this for every different strain discovered that has mutated it will never end and nor will the jabs.

just think if a real deadly virus came about with a 70% mortality rate buy the time this government thought about doing something about it we would already be dead.

 

[Danidl]

So who's figures do you believe?
Fair enough government and Boris lie by default but NHS, ONS, JVCI, Mhra... They have a vested interest in being truthful.
What's point of administering a jab to save people that kills them.???
Where are your figures from suggesting this Vaccine(covid) has killed most in history. A big claim with no reference...
Same old story with anti vaxxers. What is it 95% of statistics made up on spot. Then somebody believes them, next thing there's a conspiracy theory.
And low and behold many then justifying not having vaccine on made up stats(statements) like yours. That's what is killing people, not the vaccine.

Zlatan, when I get messages like that, I look to data ... See my posting.

 

[flecc]

I think that's a matter of opinion flecc. Yes, everybody is entitled to refuse jab but are they then automatically entitled to an ICU bed later on..

Yes, because they 've paid exactly the same tax and national insurance for that bed. It's as much theirs as anyone elses.

Years ago, we had similar with idiots refusing to wear helmets. That was a free choice too.

But an invalid argument. Most of the 100+ killed on bikes each year were wearing a helmet, all of them in London most years. Because death by head injury is so rare, most in London die from crush injuries.

I've never worn a helmet in over 70 years of cycling without a single head injury. It's about how one rides, not about what one wears. The cyclists who get killed are the ones racing around at 20+ mph, and wearing a helmet because of that speed choice. Those who amble around at 10 to 12 mph don't go over the bars so don't get hurt, even though they mostly don't wear helmets

Today 91 Tory MPs voted for freedom of choice, more than BJ's majority. That is how strongly they and I feel about it.
.

 

[flecc]

and no virus has got me yet

They aren't fast enough!
.

 

[Danidl]

Agreed, as I did say, protection against symptomatic infection.



I've seen no evidence of this, only statements, including by the makers, that they do not prevent one getting infected and passing on the virus. I've made the point before that the vaccinated person is inherently more dangerous than an unvaccinated one, since with few or no symptoms they may be unaware they've caught it so can innocently be spreading it.

As Health Secretary Sajid Javid was arguing in the HoC today, the vaccines are about protecting the NHS from critical care overload. No-one is claiming they stop infections.

Of course Javid was being disingenuous, its the Tory governments who ran the NHS down to almost the lowest hospital and ICU beds per 100k in the world we needed protection from.
.

They cannot say they prevent infections ... . That's a hostage to fortune. All it needs is one failure and you have a class action lawsuit. I can accept that some vaccinated people may engage in more risky behaviour than they would dare prior to vaccination. But there is equally no evidence that they are more prone to being asymptomatic carriers.

 

[Danidl]

Yes, because they 've paid exactly the same tax and national insurance for that bed. It's as much theirs as anyone elses.



But an invalid argument. Most of the 100+ killed on bikes each year were wearing a helmet, all of them in London most years. Because death by head injury is so rare, most in London die from crush injuries.

I've never worn a helmet in over 70 years of cycling without a single head injury. It's about how one rides, not about what one wears. The cyclists who get killed are the ones racing around at 20+ mph, and wearing a helmet because of that speed choice. Those who amble around at 10 to 12 mph don't go over the bars so don't get hurt, even though they mostly don't wear helmets

Today 91 Tory MPs voted for freedom of choice, more than BJ's majority. That is how strongly they and I feel about it.
.

Like you ,I don't wear a helmet while e biking. If I was doing gravel or off road hill runs I would..but since thats not going to happen in this life ...

 

[Zlatan]

Zlatan, when I get messages like that, I look to data ... See my posting.

Wasn't aimed at you Danidl. It was for GIjoe with his outlandish claims.
This is sort of thing getting over covid has to deal with.

Fact Check-VAERS data does not suggest COVID-19 vaccines killed 150,000 people, as analysis claims

An article widely shared on social media claims more than 150,000 people have died from COVID-19 vaccines. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) told Reuters this claim is inaccurate and based on misinterpreted data.

www.reuters.com

In time upto survey there were 8164 deaths . The article gives the actual figures and probabilities.

Basically it was widely published 150,000 deaths had been caused by vaccine in US. In actual fact it was 8164.And problem is out of any sample a certain %age would die anyway. Just that many died within 2 weeks of vaccine. How many were actually caused by vaccine is yet another argument. Without doubt there have been issues, blood clots being probably main one. In actual fact %ages are so small the risks involved are almost negligible.
Your chance of dying this week is almost identical whether you, ve had a vaccine or not. People die all the time.
That risk of dying goes up massively if you contract covid.

 

[GLJoe]

... 490 Million doses of Pfizer administered in the EU up to 1st December, there were 471,000 adverse reactions filed and in 5900 of these a fatality was noted. .. Note you need to take these data with care. It doesn't mean that 5900 people died from the vaccine...

You are quite correct, it doesn't mean that of those 5900 people, all of them were guaranteed to have died from the vaccine, however things like our yellow card system do have instructions where you only enter that data if its thought that it WAS caused by the vaccine.
Also, in the same regard, we need to take the figure of 5900 with care. Its almost certain that this is an under-reporting of the true figure.

Similar data from the USA with 459 million doses ,..of various brands, indicate 10,000 fatalities, using a similar methodology.

With the USA data, the CDC themselves admit that the VAERS system only reports on around 10% of the actual incidents. An independent Harvard medical school study put it at 1% or less! and while I can't recall the name offhand, a recently set up organisation to study Covid matters specifically came up with a figure of forty something times VAERS under reporting.
Lets call it 50 times for the sake of easy maths.
So all of a sudden, your 10,000 officially reported fatalities could very well be more like 500,000 in reality.

Hence why I mentioned in my previous post that with previous drugs, when a figure of around 50 fatalities is noted, the treatment gets stopped, yet now we are many orders of magnitude more than that - I wasn't exaggerating.

 

[guerney]

Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe covid, major South African study concludes

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/14/south-africa-omicron-coronavirus/

 

[Zlatan]

You are quite correct, it doesn't mean that of those 5900 people, all of them were guaranteed to have died from the vaccine, however things like our yellow card system do have instructions where you only enter that data if its thought that it WAS caused by the vaccine.
Also, in the same regard, we need to take the figure of 5900 with care. Its almost certain that this is an under-reporting of the true figure.




With the USA data, the CDC themselves admit that the VAERS system only reports on around 10% of the actual incidents. An independent Harvard medical school study put it at 1% or less! and while I can't recall the name offhand, a recently set up organisation to study Covid matters specifically came up with a figure of forty something times VAERS under reporting.
Lets call it 50 times for the sake of easy maths.
So all of a sudden, your 10,000 officially reported fatalities could very well be more like 500,000 in reality.

Hence why I mentioned in my previous post that with previous drugs, when a figure of around 50 fatalities is noted, the treatment gets stopped, yet now we are many orders of magnitude more than that - I wasn't exaggerating.

It's speculation again.
If figures were anything like you suggest we, d all know people with bad reactions and chances are somebody who had died.
This is exactly type of research we were talking about other day.
You, and others, decide that Vaccines cause massive problems and deaths in unacceptable numbers. (with no real evidence to point you in that direction to start with) and then start searching for "data" that fits your narrative, and then assuming you have found something, you then add to it with utter silly speculation.
There is no evidence at all to suggest Vaccines are dangerous or cause death. Quite the reverse, the statistics, if you have an open mind, are there to demonstrate Vaccines have already saved thousands upon thousands of lives.
Why are you doing this? I don't get it at all.
You dismiss ONS figures but then have faith in silly articles and speculation. It's quite ridiculous.

 

[GLJoe]

Wasn't aimed at you Danidl. It was for GIjoe with his outlandish claims.

Ok, so you are claiming 9 total deaths from the vaccines.

A quick search bring up a link to the UK government publications (only for AstraZeneca mind)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039820/COVID-19_vaccine_AstraZeneca_analysis_print.pdf

I'll give you the total:


And as per the reply to Danidl - that 1138 deaths figure is going to be questionable for a myriad of reasons ... but it sure as hell isn't 9 !!

 

[guerney]

South Africa: previous infections may explain Omicron hospitalisation rate

High levels of previous infection in province at centre of outbreak may be behind relatively low level of severe disease, expert says

www.theguardian.com

 

[Zlatan]

Ok, so you are claiming 9 total deaths from the vaccines.

A quick search bring up a link to the UK government publications (only for AstraZeneca mind)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039820/COVID-19_vaccine_AstraZeneca_analysis_print.pdf

I'll give you the total:
View attachment 45009

And as per the reply to Danidl - that 1138 deaths figure is going to be questionable for a myriad of reasons ... but it sure as hell isn't 9 !!

The table is of people suffering from mentioned complaints and their outcomes post vaccine. (for example if you scroll down quite a way, you will see Congenital Disorders. (It's impossible for the vaccine to cause congenital disorders, you are born with them)
You are doing exactly what I said earlier, setting out with a narrative and searching for its proof. You do not have skills to research at this level. You are misreading the table completely.
Read the article supplied. Leave the real research to those that know what to look for and where. https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died-as-a-result-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

 

[soundwave]

It's speculation again.
If figures were anything like you suggest we, d all know people with bad reactions and chances are somebody who had died.
This is exactly type of research we were talking about other day.
You, and others, decide that Vaccines cause massive problems and deaths in unacceptable numbers. (with no real evidence to point you in that direction to start with) and then start searching for "data" that fits your narrative, and then assuming you have found something, you then add to it with utter silly speculation.
There is no evidence at all to suggest Vaccines are dangerous or cause death. Quite the reverse, the statistics, if you have an open mind, are there to demonstrate Vaccines have already saved thousands upon thousands of lives.
Why are you doing this? I don't get it at all.
You dismiss ONS figures but then have faith in silly articles and speculation. It's quite ridiculous.

well there is proof they cause damage and death and have paid out billions in compensation over the years.

Disease	Vaccinations	Compensations	Comp/m vacc
Diphtheria+Tetanus+A.pertussis *	503,068,145	601	1.2
DTaP-Hep B-IPV	68,764,777	42	0.6
HepA+HepB, HepB+HIB	20,614,142	21	1.0
Hepatitis A	176,194,118	55	0.3
Hepatitis B	185,428,393	81	0.4
HIB (Haemophilus influenzae)	119,947,400	12	0.1
HPV	111,677,552	134	1.2
Influenza	1,518,400,000	2,833	1.9
IPV (Inactivated poliovirus vaccine)	72,962,512	4	0.1
Measles	135,660	1	7.4
Meningococcal	94,113,218	43	0.5
MMR (Measles, mumps, rubella)	101,501,714	120	1.2
MMR-Varicella	24,798,297	20	0.8
Mumps	110,749	0	0.0
Pneumococcal Conjugate	228,588,846	48	0.2
Rotavirus	107,678,219	40	0.4
Rubella	422,548	1	2.4
Tetanus	3,836,052	52	13.6
Varicella	116,063,014	45	0.4
Total	3,454,305,356	4,153	1.2

* This covers the vaccinations known by the abbreviations DT, DTaP, DTaP-HIB, DTaP-IPV, DTap-IPV-HIB, Td, Tdap

Annual awards

Fiscal year	Number of awards	Petitioners’ award	Average amount
Total	5,646	$2,575,219,387.11	$456,113.95
2006	68	$48,746,162.74	$716,855.33
2007	82	$91,449,433.89	$1,115,237.00
2008	141	$75,716,552.06	$536,996.82
2009	131	$74,142,490.58	$565,973.21
2010	173	$179,387,341.30	$1,036,921.05
2011	251	$216,319,428.47	$861,830.39
2012	249	$163,491,998.82	$656,594.37
2013	375	$254,666,326.70	$679,110.20
2014	365	$202,084,196.12	$553,655.33
2015	508	$204,137,880.22	$401,846.22
2016	689	$230,140,251.20	$334,020.68
2017	706	$252,245,932.78	$357,288.86
2018	521	$199,588,007.04	$383,086.39
2019	653	$196,217,707.64	$300,486.54
2020	734	$186,885,677.55	$254,612.64

As of November 2020, over $4.4 Billion has been awarded.[22]

all these billions in payouts dont come from these company's they come from the tax payers as these big pharma company's are protected buy the governments from prosecution so the tax payers foot the bill and they keep all there money and dont pay any tax either.

 

[Zlatan]

Drugs.

There were 5 deaths in UK (upto date of survey) directly applicable to Vaccine.
But, ofcourse, doctors, NHS and ONS could all be part of the grand conspiracy and lying. But, it must be asked... Why?

This place has plumbed new depths. There has always been a sense of rational thinking even amidst all the arguing and varying opinions. . Afraid it's disappearing.
I think Soundwave is arguing against all vaccines... But I, m not sure..
Kids are actually dying because of this BS.
Some kids can't have MMR on medical grounds. In past they benefitted from real herd Immunity by so many of others keeping infections below level where they are at threat. Those days have gone with all the stupid arguments against a system that has probably saved more lives than any other medical development. (and eliminated Small pox /Polio)
These idiots will see it all return but they won't believe the very people trying to save them. They, d rather believe BS that GI Joe and Soundwave peddle.

 

[GLJoe]

Read the article supplied. Leave the real research to those that know what to look for and where. https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died-as-a-result-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

LOL ... even the article you are linking to says:
"The Yellow Card reporting scheme has reported that between 9 December 2020 and 8 September 2021 there were 1,645 deaths where the person died shortly after receiving one of the coronavirus vaccines. This is the number of deaths reported as possibly linked to a vaccine ..."

Yet you chose to pick out only the next part that says:
"In contrast, the different statistical agencies have reported ... This meant that there were 9 deaths in the UK that involved the vaccine ..."

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[guerney]

COVID-19: New needle-phobia friendly coronavirus vaccine could protect against virus mutations

The new technology uses a jet of air to push the vaccine through the skin and aims to predict how the virus could mutate.

news.sky.com

Cambridge COVID vaccine in clinical trials

Needle-free vaccine targets COVID-19 variants and future coronaviruses

www.cam.ac.uk

 

[guerney]

Association of Psychiatric Disorders With Mortality Among Patients With COVID-19

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2775179

 

[Danidl]

You are quite correct, it doesn't mean that of those 5900 people, all of them were guaranteed to have died from the vaccine, however things like our yellow card system do have instructions where you only enter that data if its thought that it WAS caused by the vaccine.
Also, in the same regard, we need to take the figure of 5900 with care. Its almost certain that this is an under-reporting of the true figure.




With the USA data, the CDC themselves admit that the VAERS system only reports on around 10% of the actual incidents. An independent Harvard medical school study put it at 1% or less! and while I can't recall the name offhand, a recently set up organisation to study Covid matters specifically came up with a figure of forty something times VAERS under reporting.
Lets call it 50 times for the sake of easy maths.
So all of a sudden, your 10,000 officially reported fatalities could very well be more like 500,000 in reality.

Hence why I mentioned in my previous post that with previous drugs, when a figure of around 50 fatalities is noted, the treatment gets stopped, yet now we are many orders of magnitude more than that - I wasn't exaggerating.

You must distinguish between adverse reactions and serious adverse reactions. The yellow card and equivalent EMA methods and indeed your reports don't.. Anything however minor which is reported gets listed , hot flushes, sore throats , urine retention, or release ,as well as the more serious ones. You can bet any money that whereas people might only report 1% of a hot flushes, it will be 100% of a pericarditis. And all deaths are reported, whether the drug is implicated or not. The EMA and VAERs deliberately do not make a judgement on that, if the drug as administered, and a death ensues irrespective of cause, it remains registered.
Look at the leaflet accompanying any prescription medicine, and depending on your state of mind they would put you off everything except homeopathic medicine. There are the 1:10, the 1:100 the 1:1000 and the serious but too few to categorise side effects .. And they are revised every number of months over the entire lifetime of a drug .. you can even read the revision date on the leaflet.
There are now 8000 ,000,000 doses of vaccine administered globally and its increasing by 36,000,000 per day.

 

[Danidl]

Ok, so you are claiming 9 total deaths from the vaccines.

A quick search bring up a link to the UK government publications (only for AstraZeneca mind)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039820/COVID-19_vaccine_AstraZeneca_analysis_print.pdf

I'll give you the total:
View attachment 45009

And as per the reply to Danidl - that 1138 deaths figure is going to be questionable for a myriad of reasons ... but it sure as hell isn't 9 !!

GI Joe .. perhaps you should read the report s you proudly proffer... That report for AZ lists 12 deaths where the Vaccine was a probable cause.