Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

To be fair OG, you criticise everything. It sort of loses its affect. It seems to me you are wanting vaccine to fail. I don't think you, ve offered the slightest positive towards what has been an exceptional effort. Come on OG, give it a go. Try and see the positives. You are in a privileged position with respect to vaccine, we all are in UK. I do think much of your criticism is unfounded and misplaced.
I can understand Danidl, sat in Ireland waiting for a vaccine has to rationalise the issue and see good side of Urelands/EU strategy. Way it's looking he won't get a vaccine before Christmas... You can't compare UK roll out with typical EU country one. Yet, you see every possible facet to criticise. From moaning about wait, moaning about delay to 2nd to moaning about our ordering first.
The EU (and I can't differentiate between EU and individual countries, they are so inter wound) has no matter how you assess it has done a terrible job. UK for a change hasn't.
Over Thurs, Friday and Sat UK vaccinated over 2.4 million people. Have a look how many France/Germany etc managed in same time. We are ahead and still pulling away. How can you criticise that? It really is odd. I just wonder how you, d be reacting if our roll out had been like Belgium's???

The whole program has been a case of relying on luck at every point and still is, as we don't know whether the extra delay between doses can allow a dangerous variant to develop.
For that reason the numbers half injected which simply increases the number and hence the probability of that happening rather destroys the glamour of the numbers game however attractive that seems.
And frankly we have left the EU
What they do is no longer something we have any control over
And frankly a bad idea times 60 million remains a bad idea.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Which part of availability have you a difficulty understanding. ?. The contract with the UKs NHS stipulated that there could be no exports until their quota was fulfilled..which had not happened. So it would have made no difference whether the EU had signed, before, during or 3 months later than the UK.

The EU were 3 months late ordering and at least a month late approving. Then individual EU nations stuttered with the Oxford vaccine rollout.

The EU’s vaccination programme has a lot more problems ahead. Before the Oxford shambles vaccination hesitancy was about 60% in France, a recent poll has now suggested 80%. That’s huge and is largely due to Micron. Hesitancy across other nations might not be as high, but recent events will not have done anything to improve it.

 

[Zlatan]

The whole program has been a case of relying on luck at east point and still is, as we don't know whether the extra delay between doses can allow a dangerous variant to develop.
For that reason the numbers half injected which simply increases the number and hence the probability of that happening rather destroys the glamour of the numbers game however attractive that seems.
And frankly we have left the EU
What they do is no longer something we have any control over
And frankly a bad idea times 60 million remains a bad idea.

OG repeating that point again and again does not change anything. We know you didn't approve of delay, Chris Witty and his colleagues did. Be that the case or not the number of vaccines administered are still about 4 times any other European country.
Imagine Belgium, has vaccinated a quarter of us, then take into account the short delay further halves those protected. You are hailing a system which at best has protected one eigth of ours. Give it a rest OG.
And at 1/8 of population protected it simply will not protect anywhere near enough to prevent next wave... We might have done enough...

 

[oldgroaner]

Something that will Cheer Farage up no end!
National Crime Agency (NCA) branch operations manager Chris Hill said: "People smuggling networks move migrants in both directions across the border, threatening the security of both the UK and our European neighbours, but also putting lives at risk.
26 in a lorry on the M25, that should make his day, and Priti Patels too
How dare they break the lockdown rules to try and flee the country.
Jail them! hang on a minute maybe that's counter productive she was rumoured to say, why did you stop the B****Y lorry?

 

[oldgroaner]

OG repeating that point again and again does not change anything. We know you didn't approve of delay, Chris Witty and his colleagues did. Be that the case or not the number of vaccines administered are still about 4 times any other European country.
Imagine Belgium, has vaccinated a quarter of us, then take into account the short delay further halves those protected. You are hailing a system which at best has protected one eigth of ours. Give it a rest OG.
And at 1/8 of population protected it simply will not protect anywhere near enough to prevent next wave... We might have done enough...

You've done it again! will you never stop this assuming my reactions are the ones you think they should be?
"You are hailing a system which at best has protected one eigth of ours. Give it a rest OG. "
At no point have I hailed any countries vaccination system
Give it a rest Zlatan
And do you have to give a sermon every time? we already know all the points you drearily keep repeating as if they are revelations.

We extended the dosage for the simple reason we hadn't enough doses in stock
The justification had to be dreamt up to con people to think it was a logical move.
Male Bovine Excrement

What is remarkable is how few of our many millions are reported to have died after vaccination, compared the figures from Israel
Was it dirty needles they were using?

 

[sjpt]

Something that will Cheer Farage up no end!
National Crime Agency (NCA) branch operations manager Chris Hill said: "People smuggling networks move migrants in both directions across the border, threatening the security of both the UK and our European neighbours, but also putting lives at risk.
26 in a lorry on the M25, that should make his day, and Priti Patels too
How dare they break the lockdown rules to try and flee the country.
Jail them! hang on a minute maybe that's counter productive she was rumoured to say, why did you stop the B****Y lorry?

Could someone arrange to smuggle Farage out of the country? Please ...

 

[Jesus H Christ]

The whole program has been a case of relying on luck at every point and still is, as we don't know whether the extra delay between doses can allow a dangerous variant to develop.
For that reason the numbers half injected which simply increases the number and hence the probability of that happening rather destroys the glamour of the numbers game however attractive that seems.
And frankly we have left the EU
What they do is no longer something we have any control over
And frankly a bad idea times 60 million remains a bad idea.

Our medical experts in this field are of the opinion that the extended gap between vaccination is very unlikely to increase the risk of mutations.

Don’t forget, these people are amongst the worlds best.

 

[oldgroaner]

Our medical experts in this field are of the opinion that the extended gap between vaccination is very unlikely to increase the risk of mutations.

Don’t forget, these people are amongst the worlds best.

So you say, yet the manufacturer having invested billions in designing the product states it isn't and can't be manipulated by the Leave Campaign,
Sorry but this is just your take, there are opinions that differ from your so called experts
"Anthony Fauci, President Joe Biden’s chief medical adviser on COVID-19, said last month at a virtual World Economic Forum panel that delaying the second dose of a COVID-19 vaccine could increase the likelihood of an escape variant emerging. “It may not be the case, but it gets risky,” he told the audience. "

With many millions of people waiting several weeks to receive a second COVID-19 vaccine dose in some countries, experts consider the possibility that SARS-CoV-2 could evolve vaccine resistance.

I find your excess of faith disturbing

 

[flecc]

Our medical experts in this field are of the opinion that the extended gap between vaccination is very unlikely to increase the risk of mutations.

Untrue.

Asked in a Downing Street briefing whether delaying second doses could increase the risk of the virus mutating, England's chief medical officer Professor Chris Whitty admitted it was a "real worry but quite a small real worry".

There's big difference between a "real worry" and "very unlikely".

He explained there was a "balance of risk" that decision-makers had to take between getting more people vaccinated more quickly and the risk of further mutations.

So the risk is a real worry.
.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Untrue.

Asked in a Downing Street briefing whether delaying second doses could increase the risk of the virus mutating, England's chief medical officer Professor Chris Whitty admitted it was a "real worry but quite a small real worry".

There's big difference between a "real worry" and "very unlikely".

He explained there was a "balance of risk" that decision-makers had to take between getting more people vaccinated more quickly and the risk of further mutations.

So the risk is a real worry.
.

Quite a small real worry and very unlikely. I think you are splitting hairs. I see both statements as meaning the same things.

 

[Woosh]

The threat from the disease > The threat from the vaccine.

How can you admire a strategy which reverses that principle without being mental?

the EU's approach is fact based, cautious and flexible.
Approve the AZ vaccine even with limited trial results, leave the use and deployment to members to decide for themselves and pool the resources and studies.
It minimises the risk to the population while wasting nothing.
BJ made a bet which seems a good one at the moment but it could still go wrong.
If for example a new vaccine resistant variant appears in the UK, what would our government do?

 

[Danidl]

The EU were 3 months late ordering and at least a month late approving. Then individual EU nations stuttered with the Oxford vaccine rollout.

The EU’s vaccination programme has a lot more problems ahead. Before the Oxford shambles vaccination hesitancy was about 60% in France, a recent poll has now suggested 80%. That’s huge and is largely due to Micron. Hesitancy across other nations might not be as high, but recent events will not have done anything to improve it.

Read less from the Mail and the Telegraph. The AZ vaccine ..no longer the Oxford vaccine, remains in short supply on the continent. And yes recent events have not improved confidence in it, with two more cases including a fatality in Holland. It wasn't Macron , ..he was just repeating what the French Authorisation panel had noted.

 

[Danidl]

So you say, yet the manufacturer having invested billions in designing the product states it isn't and can't be manipulated by the Leave Campaign,
Sorry but this is just your take, there are opinions that differ from your so called experts
"Anthony Fauci, President Joe Biden’s chief medical adviser on COVID-19, said last month at a virtual World Economic Forum panel that delaying the second dose of a COVID-19 vaccine could increase the likelihood of an escape variant emerging. “It may not be the case, but it gets risky,” he told the audience. "

With many millions of people waiting several weeks to receive a second COVID-19 vaccine dose in some countries, experts consider the possibility that SARS-CoV-2 could evolve vaccine resistance.

I find your excess of faith disturbing

Wow OG.. I never knew that Fauci had said that. When I first voiced those concerns here, I was not aware that real experts were thinking on those lines. My concern was based on intuition.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

the EU's approach is fact based, cautious and flexible.
Approve the AZ vaccine even with limited trial results, leave the use and deployment to members to decide for themselves and pool the resources and studies.
It minimises the risk to the population while wasting nothing.
BJ made a bet which seems a good one at the moment but it could still go wrong.
If for example a new vaccine resistant variant appears in the UK, what would our government do?

The EU has lost time and perhaps more importantly, lost the confidence of its population in vaccination.

I repeat: The threat from the virus > The threat from the vaccine. Don’t lose sight of that.

 

[Danidl]

Quite a small real worry and very unlikely. I think you are splitting hairs. I see both statements as meaning the same things.

Let me ask you a very simple question. Why is the AZ or Pfizer bottle only giving 5 or 6 doses ?. Could they not just mix it with a litre of saline drip and multiply the number of people by 1000. Then the entire population could be done over a weekend. I suspect I know the answer.

 

[Danidl]

The EU has lost time and perhaps more importantly, lost the confidence of its population in vaccination.

I repeat: The threat from the virus > The threat from the vaccine. Don’t lose sight of that.

The EU has lost 4days worth of vaccine time with what was 10% of its product.. or a reduction in production of 0.4days . Well more significant in Ireland because it took us 6 days to get back on track, and we use 20% of AZ in our mix but then we had to deal with our National Holiday and beating England in Rugby.
The EU and EMA couldn't authorise the AZ until they requested it... And that was done in a fortnight.
The Pfizer was a month later than the UK, because the full protocol was carried out.
The only truth you have expressed is that the threat of death from the virus is more significant than the threat from any of the authorised vaccines.

 

[Zlatan]

You've done it again! will you never stop this assuming my reactions are the ones you think they should be?
"You are hailing a system which at best has protected one eigth of ours. Give it a rest OG. "
At no point have I hailed any countries vaccination system
Give it a rest Zlatan
And do you have to give a sermon every time? we already know all the points you drearily keep repeating as if they are revelations.

We extended the dosage for the simple reason we hadn't enough doses in stock
The justification had to be dreamt up to con people to think it was a logical move.
Male Bovine Excrement

What is remarkable is how few of our many millions are reported to have died after vaccination, compared the figures from Israel
Was it dirty needles they were using?

We did not extend delay because we hadn't got enough vaccine. We extended delay to get more jabs in arms quickly. The amount needed is identical,irrespective of delay. Everybody who has had first will get second. Stop pretending to be thick OG. You know full well extending delay does not affect either time or amounts needed.

 

[Zlatan]

Quite a small real worry and very unlikely. I think you are splitting hairs. I see both statements as meaning the same things.

And the alternative is a real worry. Getting more 2nd jabs in arms but fewer people protected, so more people get ill and yet again combined with more chances for vaccine to mutate.
Its all a matter of negotiating the route with least risk, unfortunately there isn't one with no risk. How many times do we have to say just let JCVI/Mhra /Sage navigate what they see as best route. So far they have steered HMS vaccine faultlessly.
Again, it's as tho some on here think they know more and have better insight into it all than folk mentioned. How come Danidl, OG and Woosh aren't on JCVI or Sage.. Of course they aren't qualified,you,d never guess would you. OG is more convinced of his righteousness than Chris Witty is. Or thinks he is.
People on terraces always know better than manager who has spent his life studying football. Strange isn't it how all the real experts in life don't do the things they are best qualified to do. OG, Woosh and Danidl should be procuring vaccine, telling us our best strategy and which data to look at. I don't think so. Sorry lads, Chris Whitty, Patrick Valance, JVT and Stephen Powys for me.
OG, do you really believe you know more than Chris Witty?

 

[Danidl]

We did not extend delay because we hadn't got enough vaccine. We extended delay to get more jabs in arms quickly. The amount needed is identical,irrespective of delay. Everybody who has had first will get second. Stop pretending to be thick OG. You know full well extending delay does not affect either time or amounts needed.

Z, that is a half truth. Had the UK an infinite supply of the vaccine, they would have been able to vaccinate everyone with the first dose within a week. Every Knight of Malta, Student Nurse, Paramedic, Vet, could have done it along with the standard NHS people.. ReMember on a certain day in 2016 the UK was able to get 38million people labelled, checked and processed over a 14 hour period. The decision to do the half way jab was to maximize the scarcer resource.. the vaccine. Ultimately , they all will need the second jab, ..and maybe even a third jab if the effects of the first have worn off.

 

[Zlatan]

Wow OG.. I never knew that Fauci had said that. When I first voiced those concerns here, I was not aware that real experts were thinking on those lines. My concern was based on intuition.

Chris Witty explained that weeks ago. And at time he explained very well why they had chosen path. Yes,it could increase chance of mutation but so does the higher infection rate associated with vaccinating slower. Its course of least risk.