Brexit, for once some facts.

Jesus H Christ

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In the old days ..lets say 3 years ago, we would now be entering the Festival season and and all the talk would be about those ticket scalpers ,and why we needed legislation to stop selling tickets at a profit. It was always a temporary situation,.. more punters than product... That is exactly where we are now with vaccine. The UK was the early bird with the clever algorithm, that got all the tickets on line, . The EU is like the parent who tut tuts about it not being fair because they waited until the tickets actually went on sale.
The EU dithered. They still are dithering.

The U.K. made a fantastic assessment of a the vaccine under development. The proof is evident in the number of winners we committed to and the fact we are vaccinating over 3/4 million people each day.

This is also why we are at least 10 weeks ahead of the EU with the gap widening. Keep on dithering, keep on ignoring your own medical agency keep on wasting time. Eventually, the penny may drop. I’m glad we aren’t shackled to your crippling indecision.
 
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Woosh

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The EU dithered. They still are dithering.
that's not correct.
The EU's strategy is similar to the US and to the UK. They subsidised the cost of expanding manufacturing to Pfizer and AZ like UK and US.
The experts have gone over the EU/AZ contract. Where they got it wrong is to have looser wording and not forecast contractual obligations in case of shortages.
I can post links if you want to read about the problem with the EU contract.
Since the row with AZ, Pfizer have been contracted to supply the extra doses to make up for the shortfall of AZ. Pfizer's facilities in Germany has been consequently expanded. The Marburg factory can now make 1 billion doses a year.
 
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Danidl

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The EU dithered. They still are dithering.

The U.K. made a fantastic assessment of a the vaccine under development. The proof is evident in the number of winners we committed to and the fact we are vaccinating over 3/4 million people each day.

This is also why we are at least 10 weeks ahead of the EU with the gap widening. Keep on dithering, keep on ignoring your own medical agency keep on wasting time. Eventually, the penny may drop. I’m glad we aren’t shackled to your crippling indecision.
No ! yet again. It is the difference between being small ..and in this case agile, and being bigger. The EU is still vaccinating at the same number of people per day as the UK, but being 8 times bigger the percentage per day is smaller. The UK got a head start with the Pfizer, and then Pfizer reduced output while they were upscaling, so the allocations were not as much. I could reasonably say that the UK is cheating because they are not using the Pfizer in the manner in which the material was authorised for use. The EU and the USA are following the manufacturers guidelines.. which is what makes the USAs performance impressive
 

Jesus H Christ

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No ! yet again. It is the difference between being small ..and in this case agile, and being bigger. The EU is still vaccinating at the same number of people per day as the UK, but being 8 times bigger the percentage per day is smaller. The UK got a head start with the Pfizer, and then Pfizer reduced output while they were upscaling, so the allocations were not as much. I could reasonably say that the UK is cheating because they are not using the Pfizer in the manner in which the material was authorised for use. The EU and the USA are following the manufacturers guidelines.. which is what makes the USAs performance impressive
The EU is vaccinating the same number of people per day as the U.K. :D That’s a boll ocks statistic and you know it. What percentage of their population are they vaccinating each day? That’s where the truth of their dither & delay is exposed.
 
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Woosh

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Also ironic that we went from no older people (e.g. over 65) getting AZ because it is dangerous. To no women under 55 getting AZ because it is dangerous (blood clots). To safe for adults everywhere. Probably round the block a few times before it finally plays out.
it's a new technology so much of the side effects still needs to be found out.
I like the EU's approach. It's fact based and cautious.
the EU/AZ row back in Feb is a separate issue.
Now we know now a lot more since because we have extensive facts and figures from NHS England and Scotland in addition to studies from EU countries.
As it turns out, Pfizer has half the percentage reporting side effects but AZ seems to benefit from longer gap between prime and boost and BJ's bet on vaccine seems to have paid off.
 

oyster

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it's a new technology so much of the side effects still needs to be found out.
I like the EU's approach. It's fact based and cautious.
the EU/AZ row back in Feb is a separate issue.
Now we know now a lot more since because we have extensive facts and figures from NHS England and Scotland in addition to studies from EU countries.
As it turns out, Pfizer has half the percentage reporting side effects but AZ seems to benefit from longer gap between prime and boost and BJ's bet on vaccine seems to have has paid off.
I wouldn't use Johnson as a tipster! :)
 
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Danidl

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"The above is not unusual, many countries did exactly the same. The U.K. was quick to order and quick to approve. That’s why we are doing so well."
..Not really true is it? There were not "many" countries . Russia developed their own, and rushed it out. We do not know its performance. China developed their own. Israel bought into the experimental Pfizer programme and became a test bed, and at an very high price per dose.
The UK fluffed the validation process for the Pfizer and are using it outside the validation process protocol. They also truncated the validation process for the AZ..which is why it is only now 4 months later passing FDA protocols.,
 

flecc

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Results have just been released of the AZ vaccine trial in the USA. The vaccine was nearly 80% effective in stopping the disease and 100% effective in preventing people from falling seriously ill.

20% of the volunteers were over 65 and the vaccine provided as much protection to them as to younger people. There were no safety issued regarding blood clots.

More on the trial data here.
Covid vaccine: US trial of AstraZeneca jab confirms safety - BBC News
The two trial doses given 4 weeks apart, not the 12 weeks we are subject to.

So while the benefits are obviously there, the very large change in the trial conditions means the percentages are not necessarily valid.
.
 
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Jesus H Christ

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"The above is not unusual, many countries did exactly the same. The U.K. was quick to order and quick to approve. That’s why we are doing so well."
..Not really true is it? There were not "many" countries . Russia developed their own, and rushed it out. We do not know its performance. China developed their own. Israel bought into the experimental Pfizer programme and became a test bed, and at an very high price per dose.
The UK fluffed the validation process for the Pfizer and are using it outside the validation process protocol. They also truncated the validation process for the AZ..which is why it is only now 4 months later passing FDA protocols.,
I wouldn’t call a vaccination programme which humiliates virtually every EU vaccine rollout fluffing it. You can continue your over analysis, wrong conclusions and further dither and delay. What a clown show.
 
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Zlatan

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I criticise what they do wrong, whereas you praise it, I wonder why that is?
And it fact that is exactly what they did by ordering too much, when the manufacturer only had enough to partially supply us, so cut supplies to everyone else
To be fair OG, you criticise everything. It sort of loses its affect. It seems to me you are wanting vaccine to fail. I don't think you, ve offered the slightest positive towards what has been an exceptional effort. Come on OG, give it a go. Try and see the positives. You are in a privileged position with respect to vaccine, we all are in UK. I do think much of your criticism is unfounded and misplaced.
I can understand Danidl, sat in Ireland waiting for a vaccine has to rationalise the issue and see good side of Urelands/EU strategy. Way it's looking he won't get a vaccine before Christmas... You can't compare UK roll out with typical EU country one. Yet, you see every possible facet to criticise. From moaning about wait, moaning about delay to 2nd to moaning about our ordering first.
The EU (and I can't differentiate between EU and individual countries, they are so inter wound) has no matter how you assess it has done a terrible job. UK for a change hasn't.
Over Thurs, Friday and Sat UK vaccinated over 2.4 million people. Have a look how many France/Germany etc managed in same time. We are ahead and still pulling away. How can you criticise that? It really is odd. I just wonder how you, d be reacting if our roll out had been like Belgium's???
 
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Jesus H Christ

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it's a new technology so much of the side effects still needs to be found out.
I like the EU's approach. It's fact based and cautious.
the EU/AZ row back in Feb is a separate issue.
Now we know now a lot more since because we have extensive facts and figures from NHS England and Scotland in addition to studies from EU countries.
As it turns out, Pfizer has half the percentage reporting side effects but AZ seems to benefit from longer gap between prime and boost and BJ's bet on vaccine seems to have paid off.
I like the EU approach??? What, ignore the advice of its own medical agency, dither for 3 months before placing an order, stop-start a vaccination rollout whilst simultaneously undermining public confidence so you end up with 20% confidence in vaccination??? Face a third wave of infection whilst the vaccination programme has barely started??? Be 10 weeks behind where they should be???

Are you actually mental?
 
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flecc

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Perhaps they will end up renaming themselves Janssen & Janssen? :)
Or Boris Johnson eventually changing his name by deed poll to escape his reputation!

My local NHS hospital did that after many adverse reports.

Didn't work, the next year there was another report criticising them for deaths during minor procedures such as tonsilectomy and vasectomy.

How on earth a vasectomy can cause death is baffling, what were they using, a broadsword?
.
 
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Danidl

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The EU is vaccinating the same number of people per day as the U.K. :D That’s a boll ocks statistic and you know it. What percentage of their population are they vaccinating each day? That’s where the truth of their dither & delay is exposed.
OK, I was giving the UK the benefit of the doubt.. at present in round numbers 40% of the UK population of 66 M has had at least one jab. 10% of the EU population of 450M have had at least 1 jab. The daily vaccine rate of Germany +France+Spain equals the UK daily vaccination rate. You can't use what you don't have. Now if the EU decides to play fair, and level the field and stop playing softball, and restrict EU produced vaccines to EU, it will have at least 30M more per month.
 
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Danidl

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Or Boris Johnson eventually changing his name by deed poll to escape his reputation!

My local NHS hospital did that after many adverse reports.

Didn't work, the next year there was another report criticising them for deaths during minor procedures such as tonsilectomy and vasectomy.

How on earth a vasectomy can cause death is baffling, what were they using, a broadsword?
.
Its where they start making the cut that matters,. If the initial incision is at the neck...
 

Danidl

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I like the EU approach??? What, ignore the advice of its own medical agency, dither for 3 months before placing an order, stop-start a vaccination rollout whilst simultaneously undermining public confidence so you end up with 20% confidence in vaccination??? Face a third wave of infection whilst the vaccination programme has barely started??? Be 10 weeks behind where they should be???

Are you actually mental?
You cannot use what you don't have. .. the availability of the AZ has been so erratic that it is of minor consequence in Europe. 10%.. Except in Ireland,20% where we will lap up all we can and could get.. Incidentally my lad got his first dose this morning.
 
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Danidl

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I like the EU approach??? What, ignore the advice of its own medical agency, dither for 3 months before placing an order, stop-start a vaccination rollout whilst simultaneously undermining public confidence so you end up with 20% confidence in vaccination??? Face a third wave of infection whilst the vaccination programme has barely started??? Be 10 weeks behind where they should be???

Are you actually mental?
Which part of availability have you a difficulty understanding. ?. The contract with the UKs NHS stipulated that there could be no exports until their quota was fulfilled..which had not happened. So it would have made no difference whether the EU had signed, before, during or 3 months later than the UK.
 
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