Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

I'll give you Blair's third way:

He stole the identity of the Labour party for his idea, splitting not only the party but also their electorate.

He spent the whole of the last three years with constant snide attacks on Corbyn and current Labour because they didn't match his ideas. That was utterly dishonest since if he wanted his views to be represented he should have continued to stand as an MP.

He introduced the compulsory all female shortlists, preventing males from becoming candidates and feminising the party to a point the electorate didn't like. More than half of all labour MPs are now women, and clearly they are not as popular as the men have been in the past.

In those three ways he has been instrumental, together with his fellow Tories and their lying propaganda, in Labour losing this year's election.
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Oh, so Labour have gone in wrong direction but its Blairs fault. Thought you blamed media. Make your mind up flecc.
And Blair stole nothing, Labour jumped on his bandwagon and rode it into power, they just rode another bandwagon when he became a pariah.

 

[flecc]

Been hiking in the Cairngorms for the last couple of weeks.

Have I missed anything?

Being warm and dry indoors.
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[flecc]

Oh, so Labour have gone in wrong direction but its Blairs fault. Thought you blamed media. Make your mind up flecc.

Read what I posted, it was that Blair's past and current actions together with the Media's Tory lies were instrumental, i.e. neither the sole cause.
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[50Hertz]

Yes I can.

Mark was not carrying a gun at the time and he did precisely obey the police orders, voluntarily getting out of the taxi and holding up his hands . He had both hands in the air when he was shot, the video I watched clearly showing he had a mobile phone held out in his right hand and nothing in his left.

Of course the inquest was fixed, the authorities as ever make sure that none of these firearm officers are ever convicted.
.

Firearms officers are investigated after every shooting and are convicted when found to have acted unlawfully. There are many cases.

Mark Duggen had agun. Mark Duggen was on his way to use the gun. In a split second, the officer mistook the phone for the gun and shot him.

If Mark Duggen had not chosen to take possession of a gun for the purpose of using it on another person, he wouldn’t have been shot.

I think the police should refuse to carry firearms. It is a voluntary thing they do for no extra pay. Their critics should then step up and set an example of how it should be done. Pretty soon there would be no critics left and the police could continue their good work without people making it unnecessarily more dangerous for them.

To suggest that the inquest was fixed is preposterous.

 

[flecc]

I think Sidique Khan may have some good advice for the Labour party.

Indeed, as a socialist Sadiq Khan would make little change from Corbyn's program.

But Sadiq would be savaged with lies just as much, just as he's already been by Tory lies and racism.
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[flecc]

Firearms officers are investigated after every shooting and are convicted when found to have acted unlawfully. There are many cases.

No there are not, name these convictions.

Mark Duggen was on his way to use the gun. In a split second, the officer mistook the phone for the gun and shot him.

Untrue. He was taking the gun to some one else after taking care of it. The video I watched was taken from the same direction but very much further away, and showed very clearly that it was a mobile phone held flat in his hand.

I think the police should refuse to carry firearms. It is a voluntary thing they do for no extra pay.

It was the excessive deployment of firearms by the police that produced this escalation by criminals, leading us in the direction of the USA. Even the authorities recognised this and changed course to restrict guns to specialist police. But that still isn't working while the police can permanently have armed officers on the road and use them at will.

It's a recipe for the many deadly mistakes.
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[Zlatan]

Indeed, as a socialist Sadiq Khan would make little change from Corbyn's program.

But Sadiq would be savaged with lies just as much, just as he's already been by Tory lies and racism.
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In that case Labour might aswell disband, give up and walk away...oh hang on a minute.

 

[flecc]

In that case Labour might aswell disband, give up and walk away...oh hang on a minute.

That is the case with our first past the post system and their loss of all their past Scottish seats to the SNP. Our system intrinsically favours a single popular party and totally excludes any third party.

I don't understand why Boris Johnson doesn't back the SNP having a vote on independence. If Scotland splits from the Union, Labour would never get into power, no matter who leads them.
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[50Hertz]

No there are not, name these convictions.



Untrue. He was taking the gun to some one else after taking care of it. The video I watched was taken from the same direction but very much further away, and showed very clearly that it was a mobile phone held flat in his hand.



It was the excessive deployment of firearms by the police that produced this escalation by criminals, leading us in the direction of the USA. Even the authorities recognised this and changed course to restrict guns to specialist police. But that still isn't working while the police can permanently have armed officers on the road and use them at will.

It's a recipe for the many deadly mistakes.
.

Every single police shooting is investigated. The fact that there are few or no convictions is testimony to the outstanding job firearms officers do. This is especially so when they have public snipers taking shots at them from their keyboards, armed to the teeth with hindsight.

Mark Duggen was up to his neck in illegal firearms activity. Whether he was “looking after” a gun, or had intent to use it, makes no difference. He was in possession of a gun, his choice, his fault it turned out like it did.

It a split second decision when dealing with gunmen like Mark Duggen. Very unfortunate, but sadly he won’t be the last gunman to be shot.

 

[Fingers]

Duggan threw the gun over a barrier. They found the gun afterwards.

The police couldn't have known he had thrown the gun.

 

[Zlatan]

Duggan threw the gun over a barrier. They found the gun afterwards.

The police couldn't have known he had thrown the gun.

There was some dispute with this. There were neither finger prints or his DNA on either gun or sack it was in. (but did there have to be?) There were reports a police man had been seen throwing a sack over fence, but I believe this statement was withdrawn.
Duggan's mate was convicted of supplying a gun to Duggan moments before shooting.
My sympathies are with the police.
We either believe the investigation or believe the entire system is corrupt as flecc seems to believe.

 

[Woosh]

Read what I posted, it was that Blair's past and current actions together with the Media's Tory lies were instrumental, i.e. neither the sole cause.
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I much prefer Blair to Corbyn, whose project is Militant's project, utterly unsuited to run a government of a free market economy.

 

[oldgroaner]

Fascinating fact for review there was a 1.2% increase in the Conservative vote and it resulted in an 80 seat majority to put someone who never stood for election into unaccountable power

Dominic Cummings.

Now his Glove puppet has put him in charge of expenditure for the war office.
And let him loose on the Civil Service.

What happened to the Democracy being the power of the people that OJ maundered on about?
If jobs of Ministerial rank can be handed out to mates as this has been?

Absolutely marvellous: another appalling error by Boris and the mugs who supported him.

We have a Dictator for the first time since Cromwell.

 

[flecc]

Duggan threw the gun over a barrier. They found the gun afterwards.

The police couldn't have known he had thrown the gun.

That was the police claim that was strongly disputed on good grounds. Duggan did not have a gun on him as he left the taxi, as the video clearly showed. Right handed, he had a phone in his right hand and nothing in his left.

The video showed a police officer entering the back of the taxi to search, then leaving the taxi and walking towards the video and diappearing, but then reappearing beyond the fence on the right, where he claimed he then found the gun.

The suspicion of many who watched the video was that the officer found the gun where Duggan had quickly stuffed it when the police stopped the taxi and then went to deposit it beyond the fence railings when Duggan was shot.

The police story makes no sense. If Duggan had thrown the gun through the railings in full view of the officers facing him, why did they then shoot him afterwards?

And if they saw him throwing the gun, why would they the look in the taxi for it?

It was for these reasons the riots occurred.
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[flecc]

We either believe the investigation or believe the entire system is corrupt as flecc seems to believe.

Not so, there are just some corrupt police officers prepared to lie and deceive.
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[Woosh]

Fascinating fact for review there was a 1.2% increase in the Conservative vote and it resulted in an 80 seat majority to put someone who never stood for election into unaccountable power

20% of labour voters went to the LibDems, PC and Greens, only about 3% bought Bojo's retail offers.
Labour just lost credibility with 174 pages of promises.

 

[Woosh]

Bojo will try to make capital out of winning dozens and dozens of Labour seats in the North but as matter of fact, it wasn't down to him winning the argument, it was Farage that won them for him.
What Farage brought to Bojo, Farage can take away too. Just have to be patient until Farage tells his followers that Bojo is a traitor to brexiters.

 

[50Hertz]

Not so, there are just some corrupt police officers prepared to lie and deceive.
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Agreed. There are also gunmen and their associates prepared to lie and deceive in order to deflect attention away from their gun related activity.

 

[Zlatan]

20% of labour voters went to the LibDems, PC and Greens, only about 3% bought Bojo's retail offers.
Labour just lost credibility with 174 pages of promises.

I think the WASPI bribes lost credibility for Corbyn. Its timing was poor, planning short and intended targets unlikely to generate sympathy.

 

[50Hertz]

That was the police claim that was strongly disputed on good grounds. Duggan did not have a gun on him as he left the taxi, as the video clearly showed. Right handed, he had a phone in his right hand and nothing in his left.

The video showed a police officer entering the back of the taxi to search, then leaving the taxi and walking towards the video and diappearing, but then reappearing beyond the fence on the right, where he claimed he then found the gun.

The suspicion of many who watched the video was that the officer found the gun where Duggan had quickly stuffed it when the police stopped the taxi and then went to deposit it beyond the fence railings when Duggan was shot.

The police story makes no sense. If Duggan had thrown the gun through the railings in full view of the officers facing him, why did they then shoot him afterwards?

And if they saw him throwing the gun, why would they the look in the taxi for it?

It was for these reasons the riots occurred.
.

Multiple reasons. He may have had a concealed second gun, the officers may not have been able to identify the object that was thrown.

This is a very simple case of a criminal in possession of an illegal firearm with criminal intent. Police officers do an outstanding job of neutralising a lethal threat. Criminal associates don’t like what happened so they use the incident as an excuse for looting and causing crimInal damage to innocents people’s property.

All Mark Duggen had to do was not get involved with guns. He chose to get involved, he got shot as a result. Had he chosen not to get involved with illegal firearms, the police wouldn’t have shot him. It’s very simple.