Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

It really doesn't matter does it? what's the point of blaming them? they didn't vote for Boris.

No, but they made it so most every fecker else did. Labour were a shambles pre election and worse now. "Voters are stupid". Says it all.

Years ago I had a bigish meeting with exam boards over the shockingly bad results one of their number had achieved in GCSEs. The head of that establishment stood up and openly said...
"Its not our exams its the ( stupid?) children taking them, our exams are fine"....
Labour think same way toward voters.

 

[50Hertz]

But those in the bubble can never see the big picture. They will stick to the dogma, ideals and negativity and blame media, Scotland, Tories and anything but the party itself.

I’ve seen this “Bubble Affect “ so many times, particularly in the Public Service management structure. You get totally inept management back slapping, congratulating and blowing smoke up each other’s arses to the point where they start to believe it’s real and that they are doing a fantastic job.

A police force, which I won’t name, we’re having serious performance issues, so at great expense hired a firm of business consultants to review the organisation. In summary, they found that the management were not fit for purpose, and that the organisation was only continuing to function due to skill and initiative of the foot soldiers. The same management that commissioned the report then rejected it out of hand. I guess that was because it didn’t fit the perception from within the bubble.

I believe that exactly the same mechanism is at play, but on a national scale, inside the London / Political / Liberal bubble. You can see evidence of it everywhere.

 

[Zlatan]

Says it all.

Yep, but why not. They won. To the victor...

 

[oldgroaner]

No, but they made it so most every fecker else did. Labour were a shambles pre election and worse now. "Voters are stupid". Says it all.

Years ago I had a bigish meeting with exam boards over the shockingly bad results one of their number had achieved in GCSEs. The head of that establishment stood up and openly said...
"Its not our exams its the ( stupid?) children taking them, our exams are fine"....
Labour think same way toward voters.

So do I, there can be no other explanation.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yep, but why not. They won. To the victor...

By all means approve the success of this plot, personally I regard them as parasites.

 

[oldgroaner]

I’ve seen this “Bubble Affect “ so many times, particularly in the Public Service management structure. You get totally inept management back slapping, congratulating and blowing smoke up each other’s arses to the point where they start to believe it’s real and that they are doing a fantastic job.

A police force, which I won’t name, we’re having serious performance issues, so at great expense hired a firm of business consultants to review the organisation. In summary, they found that the management were not fit for purpose, and that the organisation was only continuing to function due to skill and initiative of the foot soldiers. The same management that commissioned the report then rejected it out of hand. I guess that was because it didn’t fit the perception from within the bubble.

I believe that exactly the same mechanism is at play, but on a national scale, inside the London / Political / Liberal bubble. You can see evidence of it everywhere.

And you just voted to perpetuate it?

 

[50Hertz]

And you just voted to perpetuate it?

I voted for what I believe to be the least worst example of the bubble. I guess that’s what many others did.

I mean Raynor? She can’t even speak. She sounds like a pissed up slapper on a hen night, lying in a drainage gutter with her knickers around her ankles. FFS, what are Labour think?

 

[Zlatan]

I dont get this from you OG. Many have been saying for years Labour are getting it completely wrong, when those grumbles are proved right and Labour completely collapse you blame voters?? Voters are not stupid. They saw Labour as a worse choice than Tory and that takes some doing. Just look at Labour front bench, look at their connections to Unite/McCluskey, look at their Bribes, from free University fees, WASPI payments, Free broadband. Yes, I agreed with a lot of it but come on OG. Labour didnt need Media to be destroyed. They did it themselves. Besides have a look on Facebook, watch HIGNFY and much more. Loads of media sh! te against Boris aswell.
Yes Tories cant be trusted, nobody knows that better than folk from Rothervalley,but folk here deserted Labour for a reason.
You,ve been saying for months Labour/Corbyn are boxing clever, playing long game, picking up pieces after country collapses. Yes, great. They arent there to do that even if it happens. They are as you now said "dead".

 

[50Hertz]

I dont get this from you OG. Many have been saying for years Labour are getting it completely wrong, when those grumbles are proved right and Labour completely collapse you blame voters?? Voters are not stupid. They saw Labour as a worse choice than Tory and that takes some doing. Just look at Labour front bench, look at their connections to Unite/McCluskey, look at their Bribes, from free University fees, WASPI payments, Free broadband. Yes, I agreed with a lot of it but come on OG. Labour didnt need Media to be destroyed. They did it themselves. Besides have a look on Facebook, watch HIGNFY and much more. Loads of media sh! te against Boris aswell.

It’s the bubble effect that I described earlier and which applied to the police force. OG is trapped inside a Left Wing bubble, he can’t and won’t see what’s wrong, so the only way he can maintain references and orientation is to blame something outside the bubble. In this case, the voters. It’s classic bubble syndrome.

 

[oldgroaner]

I dont get this from you OG. Many have been saying for years Labour are getting it completely wrong, when those grumbles are proved right and Labour completely collapse you blame voters?? Voters are not stupid. They saw Labour as a worse choice than Tory and that takes some doing. Just look at Labour front bench, look at their connections to Unite/McCluskey, look at their Bribes, from free University fees, WASPI payments, Free broadband. Yes, I agreed with a lot of it but come on OG. Labour didnt need Media to be destroyed. They did it themselves. Besides have a look on Facebook, watch HIGNFY and much more. Loads of media sh! te against Boris aswell.
Yes Tories cant be trusted, nobody knows that better than folk from Rothervalley,but folk here deserted Labour for a reason.
You,ve been saying for months Labour/Corbyn are boxing clever, playing long game, picking up pieces after country collapses. Yes, great. They arent there to do that even if it happens. They are as you now said "dead".

Oh for goodness sake.
labour offered the only way to a Referendum.
No other reason is more important than that.
They simply fell for the propaganda campaign as they did at the referendum.
Now the voters have literally surrendered themselves to whatever the Conservatives want to do with them because they didn't like Corbyn and policies they would actually have benefited from?
Stupidity.
I didn't say Labour were boxing clever I said it was the wisest thing they could do, to stay out of power and not carry the blame, and it still is
Voters were stupid to pass up the last chance of a way out of the trouble to come.
What happens with labour is far less important now as the Labour party has years in which to get it's act together.
Put them out of your mind as a lost cause for now as they are not a factor in Government.
The Conservatives don't keep getting elected by thinking that voters are wise, they simply know how to manipulate them.

 

[50Hertz]

Oh for goodness sake.
labour offered the only way to a Referendum.
No other reason is more important than that.
They simply fell for the propaganda campaign as they did at the referendum.
Now the voters have literally surrendered themselves to whatever the Conservatives want to do with them because they didn't like Corbyn and policies they would actually have benefited from?
Stupidity.
I didn't say Labour were boxing clever I said it was the wisest thing they could do, to stay out of power and not carry the blame, and it still is
Voters were stupid to pass up the last chance of a way out of the trouble to come.
What happens with labour is far less important now as the Labour party has years in which to get it's act together.
Put them out of your mind as a lost cause for now as they are not a factor in Government.
The Conservatives don't keep getting elected by thinking that voters are wise, they simply know how to manipulate them.

Labour were not clear. I listened to Corbyn and he was trying to promise all things to all people, plus bolt-on stupidity. It was never going to work.

Labour fuckedup. It’s that simple. They should have been the party of a second referendum, no-deal out, or in. Nothing else.

 

[oldgroaner]

Labour were not clear. I listened to Corbyn and he was trying to promise all things to all people, plus bolt-on stupidity. It was never going to work.

Labour fuckedup. It’s that simple. They should have been the party of a second referendum, no-deal out, or in. Nothing else.

And in your estimation the voters were wise to vote for Brexit?
To commit to folly for a generation rather than five years was a good decision?

 

[Zlatan]

Oh for goodness sake.
labour offered the only way to a Referendum.
No other reason is more important than that.
They simply fell for the propaganda campaign as they did at the referendum.
Now the voters have literally surrendered themselves to whatever the Conservatives want to do with them because they didn't like Corbyn and policies they would actually have benefited from?
Stupidity.
I didn't say Labour were boxing clever I said it was the wisest thing they could do, to stay out of power and not carry the blame, and it still is
Voters were stupid to pass up the last chance of a way out of the trouble to come.
What happens with labour is far less important now as the Labour party has years in which to get it's act together.
Put them out of your mind as a lost cause for now as they are not a factor in Government.
The Conservatives don't keep getting elected by thinking that voters are wise, they simply know how to manipulate them.

You dont understand the level of hate against Tories in Rothervalley that Labour have managed to purge.
It wasnt the attraction of BJ it was the repulsion of current labour, another referendum, cheap bribes and more indecision.
Tories didnt win Labour lost.

 

[Woosh]

I didn't say Labour were boxing clever I said it was the wisest thing they could do, to stay out of power and not carry the blame, and it still is

that's only half true though.
Remain leads consistently in the polls for more than one year now, all JC had to do is to
1. offer a referendum on BJ's deal.
2. tell the electorate how he would vote.

Telling people that he'd vote to remain or for brexit is not vote losing because he has just one vote, no bigger than theirs.

but no, he is stupid enough to say that he'll negotiate his deal without justifying that:
a) his deal is viable. Brexiters don't want it, remainers don't want it either
b) the EU is going to sign up for it.

As Thornbury pointed out, the more he wants to avoid brexit, the more he will be questioned about his brexit at each and every TV interview. Remainers need a more intelligent leader than another Corbynista.

As I said, I'd like a soft brexit and EFTA membership but OG/Flecc/50 etc have convinced me that staying in the middle of the road has no future.

 

[50Hertz]

And in your estimation the voters were wise to vote for Brexit?

Given the miserable line up on the other side of Brexit, yes, they were wise to vote Tory and hence Brexit.

 

[Woosh]

Given the miserable line up on the other side of Brexit, yes, they were wise to vote Tory and hence Brexit.

voters did not vote for brexit though, the split is still in the middle with remain camp slightly ahead.
BJ will keep EHIC, pension and citizens' rights, the trade issue will still take years to sort out.

The Pound slides on the news that no deal is back on the table for 1/1/2021.
There is plenty of time to demand another referendum.

 

[Zlatan]

We should be running country. Pedelec Party.

 

[Woosh]

We should be running country. Pedelec Party.

free e-bikes for all pensioners!

 

[50Hertz]

free e-bikes for all pensioners!

... fitted with a money machine which prints more money if you use a higher assistance level. More rewards for less effort. Oops, strayed into Labour territory there.

 

[flecc]

I believe that exactly the same mechanism is at play, but on a national scale, inside the London / Political / Liberal bubble. You can see evidence of it everywhere.

But still London persists in being the Socialist Labour city it's almost always been, and by far the most successful part of the country.

In the brief period in the 1980s that your Tory government took over the running directly by scrapping the GLC, it was such a disaster that they had to admit defeat, give up and hand it back to Labour in London to run it well again.

That's the truth, the Tories can't run anything successfully for all the people. Their second try with Boris Johnson as the worst and most costly London mayor of all proved it.
.