Ha. Sure. Stolen. Right. The fact that Jews have lived there since time began - we'll just ignore that shall we? Sure. Let's ignore that.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Really? Strange that the Palestinians had lived there for thousands of years without growing any food.
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Already done. The United Nations has passed two resolutions long ago which Israel refuses to comply with, so we all know who is in the wrong.
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Maybe 233 billion USD of aid over 60 years might have given the same result if it had been given to the Christians, Jews and Muslims who had been happily living together on that land for centuries before they were invaded by refugees? Those same refugees invented modern day terrorism blowing up British families in the process.
They were legally expelled by the rulers of that land some 2000 years ago, losing their right to live there.
They regained some of that land by internationally accepted force 70 years ago, but since then have been illegally stealing further land and oppressing those who own it.
That's not ignoring anything.
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From an Israeli newspaper on the three decades of British rule:
And yet, the British were high-minded about their mission. Today we might call them arrogant, condescending, even mildly racist. But they had little doubt that they represented a superior civilization, which they were morally obligated to share with the less-advanced locals. (Speaking generally about the colonial enterprise, a decade before the occupation of Palestine, Lord Cromer suggested that Britain could be counted on to make decisions selflessly, “mainly with reference to what, by the light of Western knowledge and experience tempered by local considerations, we conscientiously think is best for the subject race, without reference to any real or supposed advantage that may accrue to England as a nation.”)
If we do get a second vote (and its a big if) then I like this guys thoughts on it, he talks a lot of sense.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/28/peoples-vote-campaign-remain-leave-voters
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/28/peoples-vote-campaign-remain-leave-voters
What did you think of John McDonnel last night. He started off in his normal calm and reasonable manner, but once the two Labour MPs starting questioning his version of events he started to lose it. Did you see how much his foot was shaking when both those MPs started to contradict him, he really didn't like being questioned at all.
Its good to see the more moderate people in the Labour party start to stand up to the hard left. I still don't think JC has any chance of ever becoming PM, but I like the way some of the more moderate people in Labour have finally found some back bone to stand up to the hard left bullies.
MPs are not influenced by his suggestions.
If they were, they would not have triggered A50 in the first place.
They left too, only they call it the Diaspora.
And a warning from history, they didn't get a trade deal.
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I don't agree, talking sense is ineffective. If the people had known sense they wouldn't have believed all the leave campaign lies, voted leave and created all this chaos and uncertainty.
I don't believe any campaigning in a fresh referendum will have any effect, since the public know what rubbish they were fed last time so will distrust everything.
Remain could win, but it would be on these factors. The now known problems that they weren't aware of last time. Wanting the whole episode to be over due to being sick of it. Wanting the certainty of the known rather than a step into the dark. The Leave voters who won't bother to vote again out of disgust that their wishes weren't listened to.
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My mother told me of Jaffa oranges from between WWI and WWII. The story below seems reasonably as I remember but I have not gone off trying checking for bias, etc.
What is the story behind the cultivation of Jaffa oranges?
Prior to 1948, the modern city of Jaffa was the cultural and economic heart of Palestine. From the late 19th century until 1970, it was also one of the largest ports of orange export in the world. Oranges and other citrus fruit were brought to Europe from the Middle East. Jaffa oranges, in particular, are a variety developed by Arab Palestinian farmers in the 19th century.1 These oranges were the pride of Palestinians because they are sweet and almost seedless. Their tough skin made them perfect for export. Moreover, the cultivation of oranges developed simultaneously with the rise of the steam engine and the increase of European exports in the mid 19th century. During the early 20th century and until 1939, oranges were the largest Palestinian export, surpassing even cotton. In 1939, a total of 30 000 hectares were cultivated and 15 million crates were exported. 2
Thus, contrary to the myth propagated by Israel of an arid, backward and under populated Palestine3, Palestinians had a dynamic agricultural sector before the arrival of European Jews. Under the British Mandate, the cultivation of products such as olives, melon, tobacco, grapevines and oranges to name a few, mostly belonged to the Arab Palestinians.4 Towards the end of the Mandate, the cultivation of oranges by Jewish Palestinians who were either native or established for several generations had significantly increased. Despite this, the production from Arab Palestinians remained superior both in terms of quantity and quality.5
https://www.cjpme.org/fs_176
He was absolutely never normal. "Nice" - I am not in a position to judge.
He was very normal when he joined the BBC from the Independant. Super bright and specialising in economics not politics.
I guess what he went through with his wife would change anyone but his over the top style now is unwatchable.
and I suppose that result would be classed as valid no matter what the margin and we would all be expected to accept it. Good luck with that