Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Personally I favour asking the South Koreans to build for us.

Possibly not quite so simple:

South Korean energy firm Kepco initially appeared to ride to the rescue, but despite talks with the UK government it later rowed back due to a change of leadership at Kepco and new approach to financing nuclear power in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/08/toshiba-uk-nuclear-power-plant-project-nu-gen-cumbria

 

[flecc]

Possibly not quite so simple:

South Korean energy firm Kepco initially appeared to ride to the rescue, but despite talks with the UK government it later rowed back due to a change of leadership at Kepco and new approach to financing nuclear power in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/08/toshiba-uk-nuclear-power-plant-project-nu-gen-cumbria

Not a problem any more. It simply means the UK government have to change their financing policy, which they are going to have to do anyway to get stations built following the Toshiba failure.

These problems are just Brexit mark 2, entirely due to government policy intransigence, wanting to have cake and eat it.
.

 

[oyster]

She is not happy. There again, neither are many of us. But she is far too pleasant about Boris Johnson.

Tory MP Anna Soubry: ‘The young will never forgive my party’

“I’m not serving in the same party as Boris Johnson. He’s proved that he’s incapable of holding high office, never mind being prime minister. He’s not true to what he believes in. It was almost a flick of a coin whether it was leave or remain. It was all for his own purposes. I have no time for him.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/09/tory-mp-anna-soubry-the-young-will-never-forgive-my-party-brexit

 

[oyster]

Not a problem any more. It simply means the UK government have to change their financing policy, which they are going to have to do anyway to get stations built following the Toshiba failure.

These problems are just Brexit mark 2, entirely due to government policy intransigence, wanting to have cake and eat it.
.

What about Kepco management? (No - I don't know what changed and how that has affected their attitude.)

 

[wheeler]

That's the benefit of being mostly empty and with much of the property and land having absent owners.
.

Absentee land owners agreed, but not empty. The place is now covered in wind turbines and their infrastructure.
Wind turbines can now be seen from 65% of Scotland's landscape.
But never mind, we're doing our bit to save the planet, even though Scotland is only responsible for 0.13% of global emissions and if we ceased all emissions tomorrow it would make the square root of heehaw difference to climate change.

wheeler

 

[oldgroaner]

Absentee land owners agreed, but not empty. The place is now covered in wind turbines and their infrastructure.
Wind turbines can now be seen from 65% of Scotland's landscape.
But never mind, we're doing our bit to save the planet, even though Scotland is only responsible for 0.13% of global emissions and if we ceased all emissions tomorrow it would make the square root of heehaw difference to climate change.

wheeler

It's still bòidheach Alba , wheeler!

 

[oldtom]

[QUOTE="oldgroaner, post: 466814, member: 15142"And just how has he reached the conclusion "is not supported by the public" when the only way to find out is by giving them the choice?[/QUOTE]

It's just like all the other pontifications emitted by the self-serving proponents of the 'Brexit' disaster, straight out of the Joseph Goebbels encyclopaedia on the fundamentals of propaganda. In this case, it is from the section entitled, 'If you are going to tell a lie, tell a big one and repeat it at every opportunity until everyone know it, believes it and understands it as the truth.'

Joe the dwarf would be immensely proud that the fascist party Conservative Party of the United Kingdom is still trading healthily, following his guiding principles in the second decade of the 21st century.

Tom

 

[flecc]

What about Kepco management? (No - I don't know what changed and how that has affected their attitude.)

I'm quite sure it was the financial position our government took that made Kepco management go cool. It was after all that which scuppered the Toshiba deal.

As I said, Brexit mark 2, our government taking unreasonable positions, wanting to have cake and eat it. Basically they want all the benefits free, but they are going to have to concede now that isn't possible and pay up to get the nuclear facilities. They coughed up a good deal in the end for EDF at Hinckley Point, now it will have to be the same again.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Just heard the father of Boris and Jo Johnson on the Breakfast program he somehow wants a public Vote to scrap May's Chequers plan "It isn't Brexit" but doesn't want a second referendum, nor General Election.
Fascinating.
A people's vote that isn't a referendum, and isn't a GE either?
Ok I'll buy that I say in jest.
So how about an Annual National Vote of Confidence?

Of course once that happens there will be hell to pay on a regular and permanent basis.
He did come out with a line that he didn't realise urinated on his argument.

"If you're not a the table you're on the menu.

Ah well, now we know where Boris gets his novel inverted logic from

 

[oldgroaner]

On Twitter Corbyn was asked whether he would stop Brexit by Der Spiegel
(on Brexit Shambles)

DER SPIEGEL: The whole country is extremely divided at the moment, not least because of Brexit. If you could stop it, would you? CORBYN: We can't stop it. The referendum took place. Article 50 has been triggered. What we can do is recognize the reasons why people voted Leave.

I tweeted
oldgroaner‏ @oldgroaner now

Replying to @brexit_sham
Corbyn, you were not elected to risk the nation in a parochial and local Social engineering experiment that takes your fancy,but to govern in the name of the people, remember if you are not at the table you are on the menu

Recycling in the process a leave fan's catchy line.........

 

[flecc]

Just heard the father of Boris and Jo Johnson on the Breakfast program he somehow wants a public Vote to scrap May's Chequers plan "It isn't Brexit" but doesn't want a second referendum, nor General Election.
Fascinating.
A people's vote that isn't a referendum, and isn't a GE either?
Ok I'll buy that I say in jest.
So how about an Annual National Vote of Confidence?

Of course once that happens there will be hell to pay on a regular and permanent basis.
He did come out with a line that he didn't realise urinated on his argument.

"If you're not a the table you're on the menu.

Ah well, now we know where Boris gets his novel inverted logic from

They certainly are a weird family. As a species they probably belong at Whipsnade or another of our major zoos.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

They certainly are a weird family. As a species they probably belong at Whipsnade or another of our major zoos.
.

I was thinking more along the lines of
"Donkey Rescue"
(With apologies to Donkeys of course!)

 

[oyster]

On Twitter Corbyn was asked whether he would stop Brexit by Der Spiegel
(on Brexit Shambles)

DER SPIEGEL: The whole country is extremely divided at the moment, not least because of Brexit. If you could stop it, would you? CORBYN: We can't stop it. The referendum took place. Article 50 has been triggered. What we can do is recognize the reasons why people voted Leave.

I tweeted
oldgroaner‏ @oldgroaner now

Replying to @brexit_sham
Corbyn, you were not elected to risk the nation in a parochial and local Social engineering experiment that takes your fancy,but to govern in the name of the people, remember if you are not at the table you are on the menu

Recycling in the process a leave fan's catchy line.........

Let us imagine that the change of heart resulted in, say, 90% wanting to remain. Would this sort of attitude still result in leaving? Obviously, any assessment other than a referendum or GE will be some sort of opinion poll but it is all we have. It is also used all the time by the parties to make decisions all the time.

Right now, I am glad that Plaid Cymru is an option for me.

 

[Woosh]

Let us imagine that the change of heart resulted in, say, 90% wanting to remain. Would this sort of attitude still result in leaving? Obviously, any assessment other than a referendum or GE will be some sort of opinion poll but it is all we have. It is also used all the time by the parties to make decisions all the time.

Right now, I am glad that Plaid Cymru is an option for me.

JC voted with his head to remain while his heart says leave.
He still can't decide which way the interest of the country is for the future. Should he be negotiating in place of the EU, he'll get closer to the EU than TM but you can be certain that the EU won't give him a better deal.
The reality is there is a price for brexit, at least for the next generation.
Our leaders should accept it and explain to the voters what they think it's best for the country.

 

[oyster]

Our leaders should accept it and explain to the voters what they think it's best for the country.

When it comes to many of our so-called leaders, I am wont to quote the Queen of Hearts: "Off with their heads!"

(Of course, not literally, not advocating a return of capital punishment.)

It might be salutary for them to even attempt to explain why they consider it in the best interests of the country. None of them has so far managed to do so and most of the time it appears they have not even gone through the mental process for themselves.

 

[tillson]

Let us imagine that the change of heart resulted in, say, 90% wanting to remain. Would this sort of attitude still result in leaving? Obviously, any assessment other than a referendum or GE will be some sort of opinion poll but it is all we have. It is also used all the time by the parties to make decisions all the time.

Right now, I am glad that Plaid Cymru is an option for me.

I don’t think that the percentage of people wanting to remain would be as high as 90%. If another referendum were held today I think it would be more in the order of 60/40 in favour of remaining.

The problem if that happened would be, do we need to hold yet another referendum two years after that, to see if people had change their minds again?

The problem we have, which exceeds Brexit, & which exceeds any damage that Brexit may do is that the establishment has lost all credibility. Credibility has reached a new low. People simply do not trust or believe what they are being told by the establishment, which makes it impossible for any reasonable and informed decision to be taken via a referendum. Equally, I don’t think that people elected to the house of commons are capable of the analysis and thought process necessary to take such a huge decision as leaving the EU.

The thing is, the genie is out of the bottle now and I don’t think we can put it back. It will take two generations to put this entire balls up to rest. Possibley two more on top of that to forget the damage caused by Theresa May’s incompetency and mule like stubbornness.

 

[flecc]

The thing is, the genie is out of the bottle now and I don’t think we can put it back. It will take two generations to put this entire balls up to rest. Possibley two more on top of that to forget the damage caused by Theresa May’s incompetency and mule like stubbornness.

I've given an Agree, but differ on this point.

I'm sure that virtually the whole country are agreed on one thing, that the whole Leave process from referendum to the present is a totally unsatisfactory mess with at present no outcome possible that is acceptable to a clear majority.

Therefore the sensible thing is to do nothing, meaning scrap Article 50 and put the whole matter in abbeyance for the present. Note it must be stressed that this would not be a decision to Remain indefinitely, just an indeterminate delay to allow room for more considered thought by all before a fresh decision on how to proceed. No winners, no losers, to get the poison out of the atmosphere.
.

 

[Danidl]

Tilson, my agree is with your general comment, I am not agreeing with your final comment regarding Mrs May.because of my reluctance to make comments about UK Politicans.

 

[Danidl]

I don't know whether UK residents can access the rte player app. ,But if you can, there was an extended interview by an official from the Irish official food marketing organisation, covering dairy products etc in a post BREXIt situation. Today between 11 and 12 . RTE radio 1.
It makes serious comments about cheese,butter, meat quality etc .. obviously from the Irish perspective, but with importance to UK markets.

 

[Woosh]

The problem if that happened would be, do we need to hold yet another referendum two years after that, to see if people had change their minds again?

in a way, yes.
Remain is the default position.
Leave is exciting, except when one is totally unprepared like we are now.