Every Fascist's ideal world situation.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
whether you voted stay or leave we were given a straightforward vote to leave or stay in the EU (I don't recall any such votes when the various treaties taking more and more from us were signed) , The British people by a majority voted to leave the EU, for whatever reason. If as is being speculated in this thread it is all a big con, we have to ask the questions. Is it worth voting if the results are meaningless.? Can we trust our politicians who are always going on about how good our democracy is?. I believe this would do huge damage to the country and respect for the democratic process.
By a majority of those who were able to vote - there have been several arguments about who was eligible to vote.
No voting system is perfect but it could have gone either way. There is no evidence that anything would have changed
what kind of brexit do you really want?
and what about the kind of brexit that other voters, the young people that were not able to vote two years ago want?
This ship sailed a long time ago, of course our politicians cannot be trusted. They've surely shown that many times. As you remarked, the people had no say in our future sovereignty being signed away and were never even informed what the Maastricht Treaty really meant.
Personally I was in favour of that course, but I very much doubt the majority would have been if they'd known its import.
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I thought we voted to leave the EU and no longer be controlled by it, but it seems to me that we are being betrayed by politicians who ask us to trust them. Don't understand about the young people who couldn't vote. Should we rerun every vote after 2 years, ah but then what about the 2 years after that. I seem to think that the government who called the referendum very much wanted us to stay so I am sure they would not exclude anyone who helped that result. The problem with a fudge is that the problem won't be solved and it will keep rumbling round for years to come.
the answer depends how much damage to the economy that the brexit deal will cause to the UK.
The issue isn't about cancelling brexit, but about the brexit deal we should have. The referendum only gave the mandate to the government of the day to get us a brexit deal, not what kind of deal BJ or Gove or Philip Hammond says we should have. The advisory role of the referendum has been clearly set in the EU Referendum Act.
Parliament will decide if that deal is right for the UK. Parliament will also decide if and when voters should be consulted again. If brexit causes no or only little damage to the economy, I guess the conservatives may win the next election. If manufacturers close their factories in droves then parliament may want to consult voters whether to cancel brexit and rejoin the EU.
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Let's start with that statement that we were controlled by the EU
We won 97% of the things we demanded and agreed to the other 3%
So who was controlling who?
Who has been betrayed? you haven't been betrayed have you ?all the leave campaign movers and shakers said we wouldn't have to leave the Single Market and the Customs union.
Considering how little anyone understood the situation, and that includes the Government, the result was no surprise to me
The generations long media and government habit of blaming all ills on the EU to avoid the blame for home made bad government made the result pretty much inevitable.
That does not however change the fact that it has proved a pointless exercise, bought with questionable finances and the latest propaganda techniques with lies, swindling and false promises, seasoned with a dash of fake "Patriotism" from a bunch of con artists masquerading as responsible politicians.
And I include the the opposition in that too.
What the public should be asking is three things.
- What was the agenda of the Leave campaign
- Who provided the Money and why?
- What kind of society were they intending to achieve?
We have downgraded ourselves in every way.
And the very people who were the real culprits with regard to the mischief that the EU got the blame for, have been let out of the asylum to prey of the public without restraint.
Brexit Voters: Behold the monster you've created.
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Since public emnity to the EU was created by long term Government and Press misrepresentation of the facts, no doubt they can reverse the process to their advantage.
Watch the process as it happens!
After all the "Rumbling round" against the EU wasn't created by the Public, but by the Press and other media directed by both Government and vested interests.
They created the mess we are in, not the person in the street or the EU
In the Guardian
"
Revealed: Arron Banks met Russian ambassador 11 times
The Leave.EU founder was offered lucrative deals in talks with the envoy
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/08/arron-banks-met-russian-ambassador-11-times-lucrative-deals
Hmmm
"
Revealed: Arron Banks met Russian ambassador 11 times
The Leave.EU founder was offered lucrative deals in talks with the envoy
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/08/arron-banks-met-russian-ambassador-11-times-lucrative-deals
Hmmm
Given how long it has taken for joining negotiations to complete (Wiki says: "As of 2018, accession negotiations are under way with Serbia (since 2014), Montenegro (since 2012) and Turkey (since 2005).") - I sincerely hope that any change of mind occurs before we have left.
I do not think we can assume any sort of fast track for an application to (re-)join even though we would be a former member. Quite possibly, that could count against the likelihood of a rapid agreement.
Years of a poor, and possibly deteriorating, economy when by then possibly even a large majority of the population see membership of the EU as essential, is not something any of us would want to go through.
very unlikely but not impossible.
The reason is simple: soft brexit will reduce the risk to the economy, more specifically foreign owned manufacturing companies like Nissan, Airbus, Siemens etc.
The Pound has risen 2% since last Monday.
I watched Michael Gove on Marr's program this morning.
He made the case for the government strategy.
Despite my general disapproval of the conservatives, I am in agreement with what he said.
He made the case for the government strategy.
Despite my general disapproval of the conservatives, I am in agreement with what he said.
You are far too easily pleased, why should we be forced to endure second best on the whim of so patently flawed a referendum?
Time brexit was quashed as dangerous to the nation's future, especially in the hands of the likes of back stabbing gove and co.
Time brexit was quashed as dangerous to the nation's future, especially in the hands of the likes of back stabbing gove and co.
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it's still early days. Let's wait until the EU rejects TM's White Paper first, then negotiate just enough to kick the proverbial can to 2020. Nobody really wants the negotiation to succeed.
Revealed: Arron Banks met Russian ambassador 11 times
The Leave.EU founder was offered lucrative deals in talks with the envoy
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/08/arron-banks-met-russian-ambassador-11-times-lucrative-deals
Does anyone still claim the referendum was honestly fought and principled?
The Leave.EU founder was offered lucrative deals in talks with the envoy
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/08/arron-banks-met-russian-ambassador-11-times-lucrative-deals
Does anyone still claim the referendum was honestly fought and principled?
Just wondering, what would happen to the pound's value if BoJo, JRM, Gove, et al, were all in an aeroplane together that went down, or happened to use the same Novichok-smeared door handle?
probably not much. They are only rent-a-mouths.
The real players are the right wing press and the big importers that pay billions every year to the EU coffers in import duty and for what?
They see WTO as the way to get their money back from the Germans, French Spaniards etc by us charging them import duty for a change.
From the Guardian on mandatory new tourist protection insurance:
The regulations, based on an EU directive, were intended to offer travellers the protection they would have if they booked through a travel agency.
But the Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy extended the rules to cover any service not part of the room rate – something no other EU country has done, according to Kurt Janson, director of the Tourism Alliance.
and
There’s nothing in the EU directive saying the host booking business needs insolvency insurance. That has been added by UK civil servants.
Facts, it all the EU's fault gov...
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/08/insurance-rules-punish-uk-hotels-holidays-staycation-heatwave
The regulations, based on an EU directive, were intended to offer travellers the protection they would have if they booked through a travel agency.
But the Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy extended the rules to cover any service not part of the room rate – something no other EU country has done, according to Kurt Janson, director of the Tourism Alliance.
and
There’s nothing in the EU directive saying the host booking business needs insolvency insurance. That has been added by UK civil servants.
Facts, it all the EU's fault gov...
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/08/insurance-rules-punish-uk-hotels-holidays-staycation-heatwave