Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
he's a talented rep. He'd sell ice to Eskimos.
Maybe TM hires him to explain her position to both tory warring tribes.
Have you been eating 'funny' mushrooms or something? The word you were looking for was 'talentless' - 'Talented' is used to describe great operatic tenors like Pavarotti or athletes like Usain Bolt, Lionel Messi or the like.
Unless you are really hearing the colours with their beautiful melodies this morning, I'll take it that you just made a 'typo' - we all do it!
Tom
The BBC news website affords us the opportunity to grasp the direction in which the tory propaganda organs would like to steer the public. That is a good thing as it saves us from actually having to pay money to read their distortion of the truth.
The Beeb simply calls it, 'The Papers':
blogs-the-papers-42289451
Tom
The Beeb simply calls it, 'The Papers':
blogs-the-papers-42289451
Tom
It's interesting that one particular newspaper described yesterday's events rather differently from the mainstream comics press:
Tom
How dare they deprecate Mrs May's brilliant diplomatic negotiating skills in such a way!
Tom
No,Boris is lined up for that job!!!
Come on Old Tom I can picture one of your graphics,hehe
KudosDave
Yes, the Irish Times is the only one that got to the core of our position. Some say it's soft Brexit, but it isn't even that since the whole UK is remaining in the customs union and single market, without attaching those names.It's interesting that one particular newspaper described yesterday's events rather differently from the mainstreamcomicspress:
How dare they deprecate Mrs May's brilliant diplomatic negotiating skills in such a way!
Tom
Basically we already match the EU requirements, and regulatory alignment means we will remain so in the future. That can allow such as car parts to go backwards and forwards across the channel without customs controls upsetting the "just in time" manufacturing processes.
The next stage is discussion on the transition period and the conditions in force during that. Only after that will there be trade talks, finally putting us into a near equivalent of EU membership.
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Well no it's not a 'soft Brexit'.
When Barnier was asked this morning by a journalist if the default position was that the UK would remain in the Single Market and Customs Union he said,
“No. You haven't understood that well… beyond its decision to leave the EU… the British government has confirmed that it wishes also to leave the single market and the customs union which is not obligatory. There are countries who are not E.U. members, who are part because that is their wish, whilst respecting of the rules of the single market. But that’s not the choice taken by the UK. So you have not understood that well.”
And I got this from Gisela Stuart this morning:
Dear James
Friday 8th December was important. We’ve made a significant first step in making sure that we are leaving the EU, taking back control of borders, laws and taxes. And as Michael Gove said this morning, there will be more money for the NHS as a result of this deal.
Today’s agreement is a welcome development that means we are able to move on to talks on trade and transition.
But the job is not done. We must ensure that the ‘full alignment of regulations’ does not come to mean keeping membership of the Single Market and the Customs Union by another name. The UK must not become a rule-taker - we will make our rules not the EU. This would not respect the mandate delivered last June to take back control of our laws.
It is also good that both sides have reached agreement on a final figure for the Brexit Bill. But we should make sure that the UK is paying no more than our legal obligation. What already seems clear however is that figures as high as £100bn were simply another part of Project Fear.
British citizens living abroad and EU citizens here have had their rights guaranteed. That is the right thing to do. For a limited period UK courts have the power to ask the European Court for an opinion. The critical point is that this will come to an end after 8 years and it will be our judges who decide, not the EU.
Much of what’s good in this agreement will probably need to be put into UK law and our MPs will have a vote. The MPs and businessmen who oppose Brexit and want to over-turn the result are planning to step up their campaign in 2018.
Together we can make sure that our politicians continue to do the right thing and vote to implement the decision we made last summer.
Thank you for all your support so far. Together we are making a difference and making sure we take back control.
Gisela Stuart, Chair, Change Britain
Which is all excellent news. Of course some people in the leave camp are not happy - Farage et al - and there's plenty of work still to be done - but overall there is good reason to be cheerful (no probably not for many of the contributors here - but I thought I'd send you news from the other side - ie the side where people are HAPPY ABOUT ALL THIS).
Have a nice day.
When Barnier was asked this morning by a journalist if the default position was that the UK would remain in the Single Market and Customs Union he said,
“No. You haven't understood that well… beyond its decision to leave the EU… the British government has confirmed that it wishes also to leave the single market and the customs union which is not obligatory. There are countries who are not E.U. members, who are part because that is their wish, whilst respecting of the rules of the single market. But that’s not the choice taken by the UK. So you have not understood that well.”
And I got this from Gisela Stuart this morning:
Dear James
Friday 8th December was important. We’ve made a significant first step in making sure that we are leaving the EU, taking back control of borders, laws and taxes. And as Michael Gove said this morning, there will be more money for the NHS as a result of this deal.
Today’s agreement is a welcome development that means we are able to move on to talks on trade and transition.
But the job is not done. We must ensure that the ‘full alignment of regulations’ does not come to mean keeping membership of the Single Market and the Customs Union by another name. The UK must not become a rule-taker - we will make our rules not the EU. This would not respect the mandate delivered last June to take back control of our laws.
It is also good that both sides have reached agreement on a final figure for the Brexit Bill. But we should make sure that the UK is paying no more than our legal obligation. What already seems clear however is that figures as high as £100bn were simply another part of Project Fear.
British citizens living abroad and EU citizens here have had their rights guaranteed. That is the right thing to do. For a limited period UK courts have the power to ask the European Court for an opinion. The critical point is that this will come to an end after 8 years and it will be our judges who decide, not the EU.
Much of what’s good in this agreement will probably need to be put into UK law and our MPs will have a vote. The MPs and businessmen who oppose Brexit and want to over-turn the result are planning to step up their campaign in 2018.
Together we can make sure that our politicians continue to do the right thing and vote to implement the decision we made last summer.
Thank you for all your support so far. Together we are making a difference and making sure we take back control.
Gisela Stuart, Chair, Change Britain
Which is all excellent news. Of course some people in the leave camp are not happy - Farage et al - and there's plenty of work still to be done - but overall there is good reason to be cheerful (no probably not for many of the contributors here - but I thought I'd send you news from the other side - ie the side where people are HAPPY ABOUT ALL THIS).
Have a nice day.
Or alternatively the next EU stage will be conducted based on this official assessment if approved by the 27.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/1_en_act_communication.pdf
There's nothing alternative about that preventing the outcome I proposed will happen. There are some simple facts that Brexiters like yourself like to ignore:
The provisional agreement on the Irish border and no Irish Sea red lines means we are potentially in an open market with the EU equivalent to customs union and a single market.
The requirements of the all important EU/UK motor industry means that poetential will have be an absolute. With a closed customs controlled channel border "just in time" supply chains used not only by the motor industry but by many others would be impossible.
The promises our motor industry have already received are further indications that the channel will remain an open border, probably without any tariffs.
I maintain the current intention of the UK and EU is to work towards a future so near to UK membership that the real world difference will be insignificant. There will of course be much vaunted differences to satisfy the Brexiters, but their effect on each of us will be about as significant as the non-existent sovereignty we'll theoretically be gaining.
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Now that the furore and the hype of yesterday's handshake and signing of agreed statements , has taken place, I am left wondering about their status. If as some commentators, have stated , that the formal letter in her hand , written after votes in parliament, were taken and invoking article 50, could be viewed legally as an invitation to tender and not a contract or solumn undertaking , what then of an agreement cobbled together without even the signoff of a cabinet?. Put bluntly, what are the consequences if either Mrs May repudiates or renages, or is deposed and her successor renages?.
Just heard Irritable Duncan Smith's reference to the Europeans "blinking first" obviously this Brexit thing is a game ? Phew, I thought it was something serious.
Everything is going as we predicted and the rout is being portrayed as a Victory.
How fortunate that the Brexit Voters are gullible enough to buy this Garbage, poor old Farage, by now I suspect they are so fed up of Brexit any excuse to say "We won" even when we didn't will be greeted with delight, and he will even have a job to improve on the dozen or so he incited to protest outside the law courts.
Of course Michel Barnier would say that, it's the official position, but it doesn't match the actuality of what was conceded by the UK. He's too good a diplomat to stir up Brexiters by highlighting the UK concessions.
As for Gisela Stuart's comments, it's just her opinions. How is an open border taking back control of borders? What is taking back control of laws when we are writing all existing EU law into UK law in the repeal bill? Not to mention that some of those regulations include the ECJ as final arbiter.
As she said, the job is not done, and on present evidence the hard Brexit she and her ilk want will never happen.
Today's "achievement" was an open border between the EU and the UK, an effective customs union, an effective single market (even some senior Brexiters say that) and future regulatory alignment. The latter means we'll make our rules match theirs since we are the tiny minority here.
Some achievement.
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As a leave voter I prefer the facts as currently known hence my posting of the link and will leave any speculation to the remain camp.
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The facts as currently known are that the conclusions just reached in Brussels are not definitely not what Brexiters wanted.
They wanted closed UK borders, full UK sovereignty and no departure bill. They've lost all three, that's fact.
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Leave voters voted for the UK to leave the EU. We are leaving.
I suppose that's an appropriate response in the age when virtual reality became possible.
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What does this mean ? I bear no allegiance to any political party. There are members from all party's that make sense, but they usually get rubbished by the Daily Spode. I look at those who speak of sovereignty; Ian Duncan Smith, Jacob Rees Mogg, John Redwood, Michael Gove, for example, and I think, now there's four individuals with their finger on the pulse, Britannia, Sir Francis Drake. It'll be great, soon I'll be able to get someone to climb up my chimney and clean it for less than a farthing. Just out of interest, anyone know what Edwina Currie is up to ?
Yes bring back the farthing! Get rid of this bloody decimal pound forced upon us by the EU! Take back control! Pardon? Frothing at the mouth? Sorry...