Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

I can hear a voice inside my head saying, 'Brexit means......' I can't remember the rest - it was so long ago. Then the same voice chimes up again saying, in even more strident tones, 'We are leaving the EU and we are leaving the single market and we are leaving the customs union!'

I'm so confused now by all the lies and media propaganda that I'm hearing voices so I'm not sure if today's news is real or fake. Perhaps I'll wake up tomorrow and find that Ryanair is going to expand their British operations after all and O'Leary had only been kidding. Nigel Farage will be pushing his fascist friends at Westminster to get rid of May and rescind this new accord, about which he is so put out that he may consider standing again for a safe seat anywhere under either UKIP or tory colours.

I'm so confused that I'm thinking there won't be any money left to help our poor farmers when the EU money dries up. Will we be building a new fleet of fishing boats so we can revitalise all the coastal towns that used to rely on fishing in the good old days? Will we be doing a deal with Iceland so that we can overfish the seas again without then getting upset?

Someone here predicted we'd be joining EFTA......

I can't see the conservatives holding on to hard brexit for long.

EFTA, here we come.

It all seems so utterly pointless now and 27 will further strengthen their position in world affairs and as a trading bloc with it's own army once they form the USofE with our little island cast adrift. Still, we may receive aid from those wealthy countries around the world! Surely if things get really tough, Israel, Saudi Arabia and the USA will help us out?

Tom - confused!

 

[oldgroaner]

I can hear a voice inside my head saying, 'Brexit means......' I can't remember the rest - it was so long ago. Then the same voice chimes up again saying, in even more strident tones, 'We are leaving the EU and we are leaving the single market and we are leaving the customs union!'

I'm so confused now by all the lies and media propaganda that I'm hearing voices so I'm not sure if today's news is real or fake. Perhaps I'll wake up tomorrow and find that Ryanair is going to expand their British operations after all and O'Leary had only been kidding. Nigel Farage will be pushing his fascist friends at Westminster to get rid of May and rescind this new accord, about which he is so put out that he may consider standing again for a safe seat anywhere under either UKIP or tory colours.

I'm so confused that I'm thinking there won't be any money left to help our poor farmers when the EU money dries up. Will we be building a new fleet of fishing boats so we can revitalise all the coastal towns that used to rely on fishing in the good old days? Will we be doing a deal with Iceland so that we can overfish the seas again without then getting upset?

Someone here predicted we'd be joining EFTA......



It all seems so utterly pointless now and 27 will further strengthen their position in world affairs and as a trading bloc with it's own army once they form the USofE with our little island cast adrift. Still, we may receive aid from those wealthy countries around the world! Surely if things get really tough, Israel, Saudi Arabia and the USA will help us out?

Tom - confused!

Here you are Tom, a penetrating assessment in a reader comment in the Indy will shed light into the Darkness

"
CrazedLepreachaun
Think about this: Brexiters main point was that they hated the EU "imposing" laws on the UK that the UK hated (even though you always had a vote on those laws and were on winning side 97% of the time) but now thanks to Brexit the situation they complained about will ACTUALLY happen: it wasn't true before that the EU imposed laws on you that you had no say in - but THANKS TO BREXIT - it is true now!!

I can't stop laughing at this - my God what have you people done? all this amounts to is you've gotten all the crappy parts of European project and none of the advantages, call this charade off im sure we can find some way for you to save face diplomatically we've no interest in humiliating you to be brutally honest our entire establishment and business class would heave a huge sigh of releif to be free of the headache!

 

[oldgroaner]

So there is an advantage to Brexit after all
The EU can now impose it's laws on us and we can't do anything about it.
"my God what have you people done?"

They were better laws than ours anyway.
I love it!

 

[flecc]

The European Commission’s negotiators have cast doubt on Theresa May’s ability to take the UK out of the single market and customs union if she follows through on her solution to the Northern Ireland border issue.

What the hell is the truth here?

The truth is as I posted earlier, we are effectively staying in the single market and customs union, that is what today's agreement was about. No hard border in Ireland and none in the Irish sea means that has to be the case.

Theresa May's insistence on the opposite is just playing for time, and with years of transition she has plenty of that time in which to dissolve Brexit into invisibility. Today was just the first stage in that process.
.

 

[oldtom]

What the hell is the truth here?

Ask me one on football please - this 'Brexshit' is clearly beyond my ken!

Tom

 

[Danidl]

I think you read too much into the word 'convergence'. It should be read as the UK agrees not racing to the bottom. The world economy in 10 year time will be much different, China will be top, ASEAN second, USA third, then EU27. We may still align to EU regulations on goods but possibly less on services and would have achieved trade gains outside the EU sphere.

I remember from my coordinate geometry, if you or neither converging or diverging, you are on a parallel path.

 

[Woosh]

I remember from my coordinate geometry, if you or neither converging or diverging, you are on a parallel path.

smart, pragmatic, the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function, the elite civil servants came through at the end.

 

[oldgroaner]

Good Cartoon from Matt in the Torygraph

 

[oldgroaner]

Gollu has this to say in the Express
"
Voters can reject Brexit deal at next election if they do not like it, vows Michael Gove
VOTERS "will be in control" to reject the Brexit deal at a general election if they do not like it, Michael Gove has said.
He said: “The British people will be in control. If the British people dislike the agreement that we have negotiated with the EU, the agreement will allow a future government to diverge.”
The next bit is rather cryptic
"He continued: "By the time of the next election, EU law and any new treaty with the EU will cease to have primacy or direct effect in UK law."

Cease to have Primacy? when we have agreed to abide by both?
Are the Brexit fans going to believe this?

 

[Woosh]

Gollu has this to say in the Express
"
Voters can reject Brexit deal at next election if they do not like it, vows Michael Gove
VOTERS "will be in control" to reject the Brexit deal at a general election if they do not like it, Michael Gove has said.
He said: “The British people will be in control. If the British people dislike the agreement that we have negotiated with the EU, the agreement will allow a future government to diverge.”
The next bit is rather cryptic
"He continued: "By the time of the next election, EU law and any new treaty with the EU will cease to have primacy or direct effect in UK law."

Cease to have Primacy? when we have agreed to abide by both?
Are the Brexit fans going to believe this?

Gove is substantially correct. The transition period should end December 2021, next GE is May/June 22. We could have the first deal with the USA or India or Australia or NZ done before the GE. Then the issue of convergence may come to the fore.

 

[anotherkiwi]

What do you make that Australia and New Zealand need? Stuff the EU don't make? Because the EU just signed a trade deal with them IIRC...

 

[oldtom]

Voters can reject Brexit deal at next election if they do not like it, vows Michael Gove

This is nothing other than a soundbite from a discredited tory politician, generally sidelined through being put out to grass at DEFRA by May where he can do least harm.

Gove was a Times hack, (I can't bring myself to append him with the title journalist as he is gutter level), and mouthpiece for Murdoch with no empathy for the common man or woman. It is all about Michael Gove for him and he really doesn't like being out of the limelight so this is a pathetic attempt to ingratiate himself with the public by his condescending statement. Talk about teaching your granny to suck eggs!

He hates Theresa May with a vengeance so any complimentary remarks he makes about her are purely for his own image improvement - he would stab her in the back at any juncture to furnish his own ambitions and regaining a seat in the Cabinet is foremost in that project.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Gove is substantially correct.

Can you not see this clown's motive in making such a ridiculous statement after being one of the foremost hard 'Brexit' proponents in the tory party?

Tom

 

[Woosh]

What do you make that Australia and New Zealand need? Stuff the EU don't make? Because the EU just signed a trade deal with them IIRC...

we can build further on the EU's deals in the next 3-4 years.

 

[Woosh]

he would stab her in the back at any juncture to furnish his own ambitions and regaining a seat in the Cabinet is foremost in that project.

he is already in the cabinet and member of the brexit cabinet.
his next stop is either replacing Johnson, Hammond or TM..

 

[oldgroaner]

Gove is substantially correct. The transition period should end December 2021, next GE is May/June 22. We could have the first deal with the USA or India or Australia or NZ done before the GE. Then the issue of convergence may come to the fore.

Except of course it will be far too late so substantially that is known as "Closing the Door after the Horse has Bolted"

 

[oldgroaner]

Can you not see this clown's motive in making such a ridiculous statement after being one of the foremost hard 'Brexit' proponents in the tory party?

Tom

Apparently not!

 

[oldtom]

he is already in the cabinet and member of the brexit cabinet.
his next stop is either replacing Johnson, Hammond or TM..

Yes, I put that badly. He was deliberately ousted by May from her inner circle of cabinet ministers and you'll remember he was effectively demoted to DEFRA, his job as Justice Secretary being given to Liz Truss.

That was a huge slap-down for a man diametrically opposed to May's governance of the party who let his fondness for the Farage/Johnson fascist approach determine, in the minds of May and her advisers, that he was a threat to her control, undermining her by various pronouncements.

He would be a backbencher today if May had had the balls to actually remove him completely from ministerial positions but his alignment with the other nasty fascists meant she couldn't take the risk of sacking him completely, fearing the backlash it might have drawn, her own position not exactly secure. Besides which, Mickey Mouse was unavailable at the time when she was searching for talent among the self-aggrandising wannabees on the backbenches and junior minister post-holders.

Many seem to have forgotten the complete mess Gove made of education when he was Education Secretary - just ask the teachers! How anyone might see him as a credible candidate for any important ministerial role is beyond me.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, I put that badly. He was deliberately ousted by May from her inner circle of cabinet ministers and you'll remember he was effectively demoted to DEFRA, his job as Justice Secretary being given to Liz Truss.

That was a huge slap-down for a man diametrically opposed to May's governance of the party who let his fondness for the Farage/Johnson fascist approach determine, in the minds of May and her advisers, that he was a threat to her control, undermining her by various pronouncements.

He would be a backbencher today if May had had the balls to actually remove him completely from ministerial positions but his alignment with the other nasty fascists meant she couldn't take the risk of sacking him completely, fearing the backlash it might have drawn, her own position not exactly secure. Besides which, Mickey Mouse was unavailable at the time when she was searching for talent among the self-aggrandising wannabees on the backbenches and junior minister post-holders.

Many seem to have forgotten the complete mess Gove made of education when he was Education Secretary - just ask the teachers! How anyone might see him as a credible candidate for any important ministerial role is beyond me.

Tom

After a year of intense training and under strict supervision he could be used to clean the Toilets

 

[oldtom]

There is a piece of really good news on the front page of the 'Daily Mail' today and very welcome it is too at this time of year:


Well done Majestic Wines! It's nice to know that there is some Christmas cheer out there as demonstrated by your benevolent act just before the Yule festivities arrive.

Tom