The time is right for some of the best satirical comedy, but nothing ? What's going on, behind the scene censorship? Baldwin and co are doing an excellent job in the USA, but here, we seem to be in a vacuum void of humour. Anyone familiar with Dickens and Anthony Trollope's writing, will note that apart from great leaps forward in technology, attitudes haven't changed much. The "we know what's best for you brigade" have regrouped.Yes bring back the farthing! Get rid of this bloody decimal pound forced upon us by the EU! Take back control! Pardon? Frothing at the mouth? Sorry...
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Here's a fact, the pound euro has inched up to 1.14, it doesn't matter intrinsically, but you can think of it as the odds the financial markets place on a hard brexit (suddenly weaker), it's what investors made of the fine print in the deal
It amuses me that Brexiters seem satisfied with the outcome of the first stage of the Brexit talks when they have so obviously lost yet again. To explain:
The War over Europe
Ever since we joined the Common Market in 1973, the anti-Europeans (now called Leavers) in our population have been at war with the concept. The first battle in that war was the 1975 referendum which the pro Europeans (now called Remainers) won.
Score: Remainers 1, Leavers 0
The next battle was over the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, which would turn the Common Market (then known as the EEC) into the EU. Once again the Remainers won and we joined the EU.
Score: Remainers 2, Leavers 0
Then came the 2016 referendum which the Leavers won.
Score: Remainers 2, Leavers 1
Then after we gave notice to depart the negotiations with the EU began, the Brexiters insisted that the talks had to be about the leaving conditions and trade in parallel. They lost that battle, the talks started on the departure conditions only.
Score: Remainers 3, Leavers 1
The departure conditions the Leavers wanted were closed borders, full UK sovereignty, no payment to leave and an insistence on no transition period. They lost on closed borders, they lost on sovereignty, they lost on payment and they lost on the transition period. We are to have an open inter-Irish EU border and an open N.I. to mainland UK border, we will have regulatory alignment accepting EU conditions, we are to pay up to £40 billions to leave and there is going to be a transition period of at least two years. That's four Leaver battles lost.
Score: Remainers 7, Leavers 1
The next stage finally had to be about trade talks according to the Leavers. It's not, instead on the insistence of the EU it will be deciding the duration of the transition period and all the conditions during its existence. Leaver's battle lost again.
Score: Remainers 8, Leavers 1
After the transition talks the trade talks will finally begin, but then the Leavers will get more shocks. We won't just be given free trade, just like the Norwegians and others we'll have to pay in for that benefit, adding much much more to the £40 billions or so. And those trade payments will be annual, not just a one-off amount.
Eventually the UK will nominally leave the EU, but when that happens I suggest the Leavers look at the meaning of Pyrrhic victory, for that is what they will have won.
Footnote:
A Pyrrhic victory is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way, though the heavy toll negates a true sense of achievement or profit.
.
The War over Europe
Ever since we joined the Common Market in 1973, the anti-Europeans (now called Leavers) in our population have been at war with the concept. The first battle in that war was the 1975 referendum which the pro Europeans (now called Remainers) won.
Score: Remainers 1, Leavers 0
The next battle was over the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, which would turn the Common Market (then known as the EEC) into the EU. Once again the Remainers won and we joined the EU.
Score: Remainers 2, Leavers 0
Then came the 2016 referendum which the Leavers won.
Score: Remainers 2, Leavers 1
Then after we gave notice to depart the negotiations with the EU began, the Brexiters insisted that the talks had to be about the leaving conditions and trade in parallel. They lost that battle, the talks started on the departure conditions only.
Score: Remainers 3, Leavers 1
The departure conditions the Leavers wanted were closed borders, full UK sovereignty, no payment to leave and an insistence on no transition period. They lost on closed borders, they lost on sovereignty, they lost on payment and they lost on the transition period. We are to have an open inter-Irish EU border and an open N.I. to mainland UK border, we will have regulatory alignment accepting EU conditions, we are to pay up to £40 billions to leave and there is going to be a transition period of at least two years. That's four Leaver battles lost.
Score: Remainers 7, Leavers 1
The next stage finally had to be about trade talks according to the Leavers. It's not, instead on the insistence of the EU it will be deciding the duration of the transition period and all the conditions during its existence. Leaver's battle lost again.
Score: Remainers 8, Leavers 1
After the transition talks the trade talks will finally begin, but then the Leavers will get more shocks. We won't just be given free trade, just like the Norwegians and others we'll have to pay in for that benefit, adding much much more to the £40 billions or so. And those trade payments will be annual, not just a one-off amount.
Eventually the UK will nominally leave the EU, but when that happens I suggest the Leavers look at the meaning of Pyrrhic victory, for that is what they will have won.
Footnote:
A Pyrrhic victory is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way, though the heavy toll negates a true sense of achievement or profit.
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One could think of brexit as being the satire. I think Peter Cooke once said the period between 1939 and 45 was the most satirical in history..
Regardless of what each of you voted for, the country will muddle along as it has always done with whoever appears to be at the helm. Once you are born, there are only two real guarantees; the chances are you will get ill at sometime, and your going to die, hopefully at a ripe old age. There are people that need cared for, and the current bunch seem to show no compassion whatsoever, quite the reverse. Far more worrying is the antics of the grand tarpaulin headed orange one. Brexit is a sideshow.
"To Leave or not to Leave
That is the Question.
Alas Poor Brexit! I knew it well
Actually nobody did, but these days "Knowing" is far more vital than boring facts
But are we?
That isn't a silly question because, as things stand today, the projections into the future drawn by most commentators seem to be a recognition that we will retain EU laws and won't be scrapping them. We will be leaving the single market and customs union but the de facto position will be that we will be doing all the same things, just avoiding using those terms.
We will still be guided and advised on certain issues by the ECJ or, put another way, we will be subservient to a court of law in which we will no longer have opportunity to have a representative. Nothing will change in regard to free movement of people across our borders because no new rules and regulations are necessary - we have always had our own ability to check who comes into the UK and who leaves, stopping those we feel pose a threat.
The NHS will not see any extra cash as a result of not paying our EU subs - that will be embezzled away in the same way as North Sea oil revenues and the money saved at the completion of the WW2 lend-lease contract.
If 'Brexidiots' consider such a pyrrhic victory something worth proclaiming, that serves only to demonstrate that even though they could be said to have been misled, they are nonetheless stupid to the core. What has been won and come to that, what was the point of the whole charade? Our currency will not recover significantly against others and prices of imported goods will continue to rise, making ordinary working folk worse off.
Austerity for the masses will continue unabated and the 5% will take advantage of the free-flow of goods traffic through our borders to amass fortunes by 21st century smuggling operations. No trickle-down effect will exist from such activities.
This pretend 'Brexit' may well be the worst of all worlds for the man in the street and I wonder just how much New Zealand lamb people can eat with their sovereignty.....oops, I forgot; NZ already has an arrangement with the EU so maybe we won't be able to afford lamb!
As we have lost every round of the negotiations so far, I don't expect things to change much when it comes to a trade deal - we will get stuffed again but will spin that as another glorious victory against the massed ranks of 27 other countries.
Tom
The tale you told in the drivel that accompanied that assertion rivals anything ever produced by the pen of Hans Christian Andersen. Don't you think it's time you dragged your head out of the sand?.....or are you going to be a complete plonker all your life?
Tom
You could try writing to John Major - he has intimate knowledge of her and I'm sure he's still in touch.....just address it to him c/o MCC, St John's Wood, London, NW8 8QN. That way, we won't cause Norma any more embarrassment or distress - she's 75years old now!
Tom
It has emerged that Nigel Farage is unhappy with Theresa May's surrender to the EU over 'Brexit'. This explains:
farage-deeply-unhappy-that-brexit-deal-failed-no-mention-concentration-camps
Tom
farage-deeply-unhappy-that-brexit-deal-failed-no-mention-concentration-camps
Tom
I'm just sitting pondering the current position now that we know roughly the shape of the UK's relationship with the EU after 'Brexit'. At the moment, we seem to be here:
I'll continue contemplating.....there must be more?
Tom
I'll continue contemplating.....there must be more?
Tom
Hello all first and last post from myself, just wanted to say how childish I personally find referring to anyone who voted to leave a brexidiot. Keyboard warriors should be ashamed of themselves.
Carry on all, goodbye
Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Carry on all, goodbye
Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
You seem confused, the people who should be ashamed of themselves are the one's who still support Brexit
They had an excuse at the time of the referendum, now they have none
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
Capital letters for Merry Christmas but not for the happy new year.
Does that mean you think things are going to go downhill from January on Steve?
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I fully agree with you, and it is equally insulting to label approximately half the UK voters with title "remoaners".
Well then, that's cleared everything up then. What kind of bicycle do you have Steve ?
What do you call voters that spend 44 billion on a vanity project during a recession? Seriously, can you imagine what a 44 billion investment would have turned public services into. Aside from the collateral damage of sterling's collapse
Wishful thinking in the Express this morning
"
Crucial talks are set to start on Britain’s future relationship with the EU this week, with MPs claiming the behaviour of Brussels’ negotiators revealed that they both “need and want” a free-trade deal with the UK .
The 15-page agreement – which satisfied the condition of “sufficient progress” being made on citizens rights, Northern Ireland and the financial settlement – entrenched Mrs May’s caveat that “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”.
It also means Britain can withdraw its offer of paying up to £39billion to the EU if no deal is reached. Leading Eurosceptics have been emboldened by the sudden urgency with which EU chiefs Jean-Claude Juncker and Donald Tusk reacted to the talks appearing to fall apart at the beginning of last week following an intervention by DUP leader Arlene Foster.
Perhaps someone should try to tell them, as Hammond did, we can't refuse to pay our debts and use that a a threat , but then this sort of Propaganda is aimed at the "Ultra intelligent" Brexit Voters (A term used so as not to upset certain readers who shadow the Forum)
And of course the EU negotiaters will treat it with the scorn it deserves anyway.
"
Crucial talks are set to start on Britain’s future relationship with the EU this week, with MPs claiming the behaviour of Brussels’ negotiators revealed that they both “need and want” a free-trade deal with the UK .
The 15-page agreement – which satisfied the condition of “sufficient progress” being made on citizens rights, Northern Ireland and the financial settlement – entrenched Mrs May’s caveat that “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”.
It also means Britain can withdraw its offer of paying up to £39billion to the EU if no deal is reached. Leading Eurosceptics have been emboldened by the sudden urgency with which EU chiefs Jean-Claude Juncker and Donald Tusk reacted to the talks appearing to fall apart at the beginning of last week following an intervention by DUP leader Arlene Foster.
Perhaps someone should try to tell them, as Hammond did, we can't refuse to pay our debts and use that a a threat , but then this sort of Propaganda is aimed at the "Ultra intelligent" Brexit Voters (A term used so as not to upset certain readers who shadow the Forum)
And of course the EU negotiaters will treat it with the scorn it deserves anyway.