Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Well there you have it, really silly i didn`t sus that out for myself

17,410,742 were victims of a confidence trick, unable to think for themselves?!! .... Rrrighttttttt !

You may well be an oldgroaner but try not to come across as an oldfool

My goodness, an attempted put down on the premise that the public can't make a monemental cock up of a decision?
Have you no grasp of Human History at all?
So you trying to say the public haven't made the most misguided decision ever. Hmm!
Lets see now: they voted on the basis of believing Propaganda lies and promises presented to them by Boris, Gove and co, a picture of the EU distorted over many years by the Murdoch press, and only a handful of people actually knew how the EU is organised and despite that ignorance believed it to be corrupt and undemocratic.
Their understanding of the benefits and costs, and worse consequences of leaving the EU was woefully inadequate, distorted once again by the Murdoch Press and others,yet they believed promises of vast sums for the NHS and better times for themselves.
Just Pull out and to hell with EU domination they cried. "lets get our Sovereignty Back, control our borders" etc.
The Government simply caved in to this as they feared public anger, after all they had lied about the EU for forty years and blamed it for everything they had ballsed up.
That same Government was telling the public how no deal was better than a bad deal, yet is now telling them a bad deal would be a disaster for the NHS and economy
And cheap foreign workers will still be allowed in in droves.
So what did the Brexit Vote achieve? more lies and promises from Politicians, and "Weak and Wobbly May in charge"
Mere number's do not make a rash decision wise, only popular, and just what good has that decision done?
Name anything at all that has improved because of it before calling me an old fool.
Tell me, were the 18 million voters who put these Tory politicians that will happily criticise Corbyn over terrorist links wise in that decision to put them back into power?
Were they not fooled now that an alliance with the DUP is sought?
Were you gullible enough to be one of them?
Then think about who is being the fool before calling me one.
It was bad enough to have made the wrong decision and demand leaving the EU out of ignorance of what it does and the harm leaving will do to us, but to cling to that decision after more evidence of the consequences is there for all to see, and have still elected these political fools back into office on the basis of even more of their lies., and they would form an alliance with the DUP to stay in power...do you call that wise?
"17,410,742 were victims of a confidence trick, unable to think for themselves?!! .... Rrrighttttttt !
Ok then what do you call their decision?was it based on careful thought and sensible? or have you accidentally revealed the truth in that statement?
Can it be that you really don't understand the way the Public have been influenced by a hostile media?
So these sort of comments are nonsense are they?
John Prescott @johnprescott


Heard from very good source who was there that Rupert Murdoch stormed out of The Times Election Party after seeing the Exit Poll

#Vote2017

Follow
John Prescott @johnprescott
Murdoch obviously angry that after backing May he may not see the Tories deliver on their manifesto promise to scrap Leveson 2 & Section 40
You've been well and truly had. as usual.
https://www.indy100.com/article/rupert-murdoch-stormed-out-general-election-exit-poll-hung-parliament-7780951
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[oldgroaner]

Get your finger out TM!

You have to wonder what magical bluff or threat the Murdoch press will present this letter as.
Loved the "reappointment" bit instead of "re-election"

Predictably enough they published this in the Express
"
Donald Tusk reacts to Election 2017... and what he said will make you FURIOUS
DONALD Tusk has taken a swipe at Britain’s election results with a cutting remark at Theresa May’s Brexit threat to walk away without a deal.

It didn't make me furious, as his remarks were factual, but I hear it Made Rupert Murdoch furious.
Jolly good show!

 

[oldgroaner]

Now Business leaders are coming out of the woodwork
"
Business demands bigger role in public debate on Brexit
Business groups have called on the government to move the economy up the Brexit agenda in an early push to soften the Tories’ negotiating stance as the country faces a hung parliament. The message was conveyed to Greg Clark in a private meeting convened by the business secretary yesterday morning, at which industry bodies also expressed a...

Brexit has about the same chance of being what the Voters wanted as TM has of remaining PM.
It will go ahead, in a form that is only acceptable to the 1% as they intended.
The plebs can suffer in the process, after all why should the 1% give a damn about them?

Brexit voters, you have been well and truly had

As to this posting
"17,410,742 were victims of a confidence trick, unable to think for themselves?!! .... Rrrighttttttt !"

All right then suggest another explanation that even remotely fits the present circumstances.
Perhaps we could hold a competition and see who comes up with the most imaginative answer?

 

[oldgroaner]

The FT is showing this sorry bunch as possible replacement for May

And what a dazzling array of talent to choose from, eh?
What happened to Gollum and Moggie?
This is getting more and more like an Episode of Monty Python's Flying Circus every day!
Our Country has become the laughing stock of the Entire planet thanks to the Tory internal Cat Fighting which brought us Brexit, and it just keeps getting worse, doesn't it?

I would say that The Conservatives and the Brexit Debacle have ruined the Good reputation of this nation.
If it wasn't for the fact that this Nation doesn't have a good reputation, does it?

(With apologies to the Monty Python sketch aimed at France)

 

[oldgroaner]

Naughty, naughty................

 

[mike killay]

.... Let me be very bold here... The pact with the DUP and Tories only works because SF and it's predecessor have a policy since 1919 of abstaining from taking their seats in Westminster. They have now no difficulty in taking their seats in the Irish Dail , once also subject to the same policy. or the NI assembly.. the latter having been set up by act of Westminster
A core principle of SF is to have a referendum or border poll , for the purposes of a united Ireland... (Mind you the country has always been united, it's just the people who are divided. .)
Were they to agree to take their seats in exchange for a border poll, there would be no ill feeling from their constituents, rather they would welcome it. ..

Interesting times
.

Border poll,
Advisory only?

 

[oldtom]

As a matter of law , would it not be the case that you do not have a government at present and all the current ministers , including the pm are caretakers pro tem.. Is it not the first order of business for the new parliament to elect a prime minister?

It seems that events have overtaken any possibility of the UK being rudderless as the evil bitch, May, has signalled her intention to simply carry on regardless and is in the process, if the tory media wing is to be believed, of forming a new cabinet with whom she will press ahead with the support of the DUP.

It is always useful nonetheless 'Danidl', to have the benefit of opinion from those outside looking in when we are constantly looking outwards, while mired in a psychological dilemma centred upon a gerrymandered electoral system rigged to suit the inbred British establishment, so thank you for that.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

These are not my words but those of a socialist commentator who puts ordinary people and their needs before wealth expansion, profit margins and balance sheets:


'If you're one of the Ukippers who voted to prop up Theresa May simply because you liked the way Theresa May kept robotically repeating her Brexit platitudes, make sure you understand that you've betrayed your own revolution.

Jeremy Corbyn could have given you a Brexit for the British people, Theresa May is just going to carry on with her chaotic stalling tactics.

Ask yourself how it's almost a year from the Brexit vote and we hadn't even started the negotiations before she called her needless vanity election and threw the whole thing into even more chaos than it was in before.

Ask yourself how you watched the Tory transport minister Chris Grayling hand a chunk of our railways to the government of Honk Kong in March and think that was compatible with "taking back control".

Ask yourself how you saw Theresa May lie that she was going to invest extra in the NHS, threaten to asset strip pensioners, and snatch food out of children's mouths and thought "ah yes - that's the kind of governance I want to see in Brexit Britain.

Ask yourself how you heard her recycle her twice-broken pledge to reduce immigration to below 100,000 and thought "you know what? I believe her this time".

Ask yourself how you saw her plans to trash the budget of almost every school in England and thought "well a **** education for our kids is a price worth paying for a hard Tory Brexit".

Ask yourself how you saw Theresa May and Amber Rudd repeatedly refusing to rule out even more police cuts (even after Manchester and London Bridge!) and thought "ah yes" we definitely need fewer cops on the streets.

Ask yourself how you saw the Tories let a guy who was known to be plotting a terror attack against the UK to come through the border unhindered, and then let a bloody TV jihadi go on a rampage through London and thought that Jeremy Corbyn was the threat to public safety.

Ask yourself how you couldn't even see Theresa May for the narcissistic self-serving opportunist that she is.

Ask yourself how you couldn't even see that she hijacked the Brexit flag for her own personal self-interest in the hope of Ukippers following along behind her without even thinking about it.

So what was it you saw in her that made you think that she was anything but a vacuous self-serving charlatan?'

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

Thought QT was good last night. Fairly balanced , ( especially at side of how this place has been pushed towards extreme left)some good questions and observations from audience.
Grayling came over well and Campbell showing us why he was Tony's lap spinster.

Comment of the night .." Labour lost, get over it".

And quoting from recent publication from HL on big business, investments etc
"Everything has changed but nothing has changed"

Tommie..at last some sense in this place but as usual the old fool just shouts you down , assuming a long winded ramble puts you in your place and makes his arguments righteous..

 

[Woosh]

especially at side of how this place has been pushed towards extreme left

I wouldn't consider the number of posts as an indicator, the number of posters is.
I consider myself a centrist.

 

[Zlatan]

I wouldn't consider the number of posts as an indicator, the number of posters is.
I consider myself a centrist.

Me too, perhaps leftish...but both you and I have been shouted down ( and insulted)again and again,as was Tillson as Tommie just was.
I,ll guarantee as we post one of pair will be cutting and pasting some leftish garbage.

Amazes me how labour have looked on this result as success. TM has made the worst campaign in.living memory and she has still beaten Corbyn. Never mind TM resigning Corbyn should. He,s proved that he will never be elected PM. If he couldn't this time he never will.
And after his campaign I,ve started to doubt his sincerity. He,s bought young vote with promises he could not carry out.
I really believe had Milliband returned ( the shorter , cleverer one) we,d now have a labour government. As it is we,ve no idea what we are getting.
Corbyn is just too far left to be a PM, but who knows.

 

[Danidl]

Border poll,
Advisory only?

.. nope... I guess your comment is tongue in cheek but the border poll and simultaneous referendum in the ROI is as formal as it gets ...international treaties, lodged with UN etc.
Carrying on this train of thought.. the DUP were the only party who did not agree with the Belfast agreement, and if they were to join with the Tories, SF could threaten as above.. , thus cancelling them out and creating a DUP Armageddon

 

[Woosh]

Carrying on this train of thought.. the DUP were the only party who did not agree with the Belfast agreement, and if they were to join with the Tories, SF could threaten as above.. , thus cancelling them out and creating a DUP Armageddon

The DUP is clearly an unsuitable partner for a government in any shape or form.
there is no way a hung parliament can deliver a strong and stable government.
I hope the tories are going to sort out who will lead them within a year, then a new election will be called.
Regarding brexit, any government will be OK sorting out residency rights for EU citizens and the divorce bill. A new govermnent will be formed in time to settle the question of our future relationship with the EU.
I do hope that the extremists won't get to keep their seats in the next parliament.

 

[oldgroaner]

Me too, perhaps leftish...but both you and I have been shouted down ( and insulted)again and again,as was Tillson as Tommie just was.
I,ll guarantee as we post one of pair will be cutting and pasting some leftish garbage.

Amazes me how labour have looked on this result as success. TM has made the worst campaign in.living memory and she has still beaten Corbyn. Never mind TM resigning Corbyn should. He,s proved that he will never be elected PM. If he couldn't this time he never will.
And after his campaign I,ve started to doubt his sincerity. He,s bought young vote with promises he could not carry out.
I really believe had Milliband returned ( the shorter , cleverer one) we,d now have a labour government. As it is we,ve no idea what we are getting.
Corbyn is just too far left to be a PM, but who knows.

You really need to decide what manner of beast you are, don't you?
You claim to be socialist then reveal you are really pink Tory.
Your latest posts show your true colours, brexit is now in doubt and you don't like it, and you still can't point to any single thing proves that voting for it has been anything other than disastrous.
Worst of all of this mock " I've been insulted " faux outrage when someone questions your judgement, and points out the faults to you.
The brexit cause lost in a big way with the GE
People are obviously coming to their senses about it, so why aren't you?
If it finally goes ahead is own mother wouldn't recognise it.
As you are so fond of saying
You lost, get over it[emoji1]

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[Woosh]

People are obviously coming to their senses about it,

not quite yet.
We have to wait for the deal with the EU to be made then people will come to their senses.
In the mean time, Mr Corbyn's station has hugely improved but Labour is still in no shape to govern the country.

 

[oldgroaner]

not quite yet.
We have to wait for the deal with the EU then people will come to their senses.

Agreed, assuming they are reliably informed of the true implications
And really he would be foolish to take on the challenge at this time
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[Danidl]

The DUP is clearly an unsuitable partner for a government in any shape or form.
there is no way a hung parliament can deliver a strong and stable government.
I hope the tories are going to sort out who will lead them within a year, then a new election will be called.
Regarding brexit, any government will be OK sorting out residency rights for EU citizens and the divorce bill. A new govermnent will be formed in time to settle the question of our future relationship with the EU.
I do hope that the extremists won't get to keep their seats in the next parliament.

... The Tories probably assume that the DUP are the same as the unionists or as they were the Ulster unionist party. There uup, of which there are now no members in the UK parliament, were indeed very similar in outlook and makeup to the traditional Tories.. landowners, rural, or if urban then middle class conservative medical and legal professionals, rich or at least comfortable. And we're basically out of touch with the concerns of an urban working class, whom they would have seen as their employees.
The DUP on the other hand are exactly these employees, less educated, bitter because they see their birthrights being eroded . In many ways the salt of the earth, with strongly held beliefs, and dogmatic . Not all DUP believe in creationism, or are climate change deniers or are anti science . It is rather a collation of the economically defranchished Protestant denominations.
These are generalisations and as all such there are exceptions. The only things both classes of unionist have is a dogged determination to remain within what they see as a united kingdom.
Very simply the Tories in the UK will not be prepared for the simplified language and blunt ways of the DUP.

 

[Woosh]

beside the well publicised prejudices, I see the DUP as representing one side of the conflict in NI, therefore unsuitable to be chosen as a partner for the conservatives in the same way that SF is unsuitable for a Labour led coalition.

 

[Zlatan]

You really need to decide what manner of beast you are, don't you?
You claim to be socialist then reveal you are really pink Tory.
Your latest posts show your true colours, brexit is now in doubt and you don't like it, and you still can't point to any single thing proves that voting for it has been anything other than disastrous.
Worst of all of this mock " I've been insulted " faux outrage when someone questions your judgement, and points out the faults to you.
The brexit cause lost in a big way with the GE
People are obviously coming to their senses about it, so why aren't you?
If it finally goes ahead is own mother wouldn't recognise it.
As you are so fond of saying
You lost, get over it[emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Brexit is no more in doubt than pre election. ( I believe there are actually more Brexit supporters in house of commons than last week)

I couldn't care less wether Brexit happens or not. I,ve said all along in long run it will make no difference. ( I even quoted HL as saying " everything has changed but nothing has"

Trying to put a colour on my politics is pointless. Blair destroyed Labour but made a vacuum for Corbyn to exist and rise to lead their version of labour. Between the pair ( Blair and Corbyn) probably lies the Labour government that would get my full support. Corbyn does not for reasons I,ve explained.
Had labour had a viable leader with broader appeal ( ie less extreme left wing) we would now have a labour government. To my mind Corbyn has kept labour out of office.

 

[flecc]

And really he would be foolish to take on the challenge at this time

Which is why in my view Labour won the general election. They've emerged with the strongest and most capable current leader by far, yet avoided the most poisoned chalice in living political history.

That leaves them well placed for the future.
.