Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

This election will be remembered as a massive missed opportunity for Labour. A more moderate leader, with a more main stream approach to defence , Trident and Nuclear Power and probably even a more cynical attitude to Brexit would have seen a landslide victory for Labour , not this psuedo win folk are seeing at moment. Its a really big shame.
Tories have as much time as they need to align their policies with public wishes for next time. Even if Brexit fails labour wont benefit, they have neither opposed it or supported it. Does anybody actually know where Corbyn stands on Brexit. I don't think I,ve heard him mention it. Seems he sort of supports it.???

 

[Zlatan]

He could easily have been there today
Fortunately for him he isn't.
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Like I said earlier he should not be labour leader if he thinks that way. If Labour thinks it should not happen their manifesto and policies should reflect that stance. It seems Labour are more secretive and scheming than Tories at moment.
By your argument they are waiting to inherit a complete shambles ? We already have one.!!!

 

[Danidl]

My impression is that the Scottish Conservatives are more Liberal and less "traditional" than the English Conservatives. From what I'm hearing, the DUP seem to hold 1950s type Conservative values.

How is May going to bring these two groups together? The Scottish Conservative MPs are significant in number now, yet the foul witch seems to have forged ahead with the DUP idea, assuming the Scottish will obediently follow.

I'm hoping that this explodes in her face to add further humiliation to her predicament. I want her to be humiliated and discredited to such an extent that it serves as a lesson to future party leaders. I have never voted Labour, but the disrespect that affront to the female showed towards him in the run up to the election was breathtaking. Jeremy Corbin is 10X the human being that May will ever be.

... The comments by Ruth Davidson of the Scottish cons , give hope of rational Brexit negotiations. There is no way that even if she joined with the southern cons , and with the support of the DUP that the hard Brexit deal has a chance of surviving.

 

[Woosh]

Does anybody actually know where Corbyn stands on Brexit.

Corbyn is pro single market, if not, Customs union.
I am perfectly happy with either.

 

[Woosh]

... The comments by Ruth Davidson of the Scottish cons , give hope of rational Brexit negotiations. There is no way that even if she joined with the southern cons , and with the support of the DUP that the hard Brexit deal has a chance of surviving.

the hard brexiters in Westminster are very well organized.

if Ruth Davison eventually becomes the new leader of the conservatives, then yes, hard brexit won't happen.

 

[Danidl]

the hard brexiters in Westminster are very well organized.

if Ruth Davison eventually becomes the new leader of the conservatives, then yes, hard brexit won't happen.

Irrespective of how well they are organised, without the numbers they are ineffective... she doesn't have to do that, with her group, which apparently ran a successful campaign against the instructions of the central party, she now has clout. She can simply declare herself the Scottish conservatives, a separate group and demand that her cooperation in electing a Tory government is contingent on being made deputy prime minister or chancellor or whatever... That is realpolitik. There is apparently little love lost between the centre and the Scots.

 

[Woosh]

respective of how well they are organised, without the numbers they are ineffective.

while we are still in the brexit phase (for the next 10 years, in, out or still negotiating), it is unlikely that any government will command a large majority because of the 48/52 split.
The hard brexiters will continue to leverage on the right wing press to multiply their influence.

 

[flecc]

No, the public will move to the left

And the outcome of what's happening at present will be that they will indeed move to the left.
.

 

[flecc]

Labour needs to move to right to stand any chance of taking office.

Not so. Your mistake is that for years, like so much of the UK public, you've believed the Tory lies that our socialists like Jeremy Corbyn are extreme left wing, almost akin to communists.

In mainland Europe Jeremy Corbyn would be viewed as simply a socialist, not at all extreme. He has much in common with Clement Attlee and his 1945 government, and no-one views them as extreme left wing now. Most are very thankful that they were once in power.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

This election will be remembered as a massive missed opportunity for Labour. A more moderate leader, with a more main stream approach to defence , Trident and Nuclear Power and probably even a more cynical attitude to Brexit would have seen a landslide victory for Labour , not this psuedo win folk are seeing at moment. Its a really big shame.
Tories have as much time as they need to align their policies with public wishes for next time. Even if Brexit fails labour wont benefit, they have neither opposed it or supported it. Does anybody actually know where Corbyn stands on Brexit. I don't think I,ve heard him mention it. Seems he sort of supports it.???

As usual you manage to be utterly wrong, the opportunity was missed by May to make her position fireproof and Corbyn was saved by the bell from suffering from the backlash to come when Brexit goes bottom up.
And then you ramble on as usual about Corbyn's intentions.
What the hell good would a landslide victory have been for Labour? unless Corbyn had simply cancelled Brexit on the spot he would have shared the fate waiting to destroy the Tory party.

Of course Labour will benefit from Brexit, it already has otherwise the Tory party would have had their 100 plus majority.
Where and why did so many more people vote for them?

There might be more mileage for you to consider this question, Why did May try so hard to lose the election?
She was acting as Boris does in trying to get herself the sack with as poor a campaign as that.
It was in fact so poor, it even made some of your arguments appear to verge on being credible.

 

[oldgroaner]

By your argument they are waiting to inherit a complete shambles ? We already have one.!

Brother as they say
"You 'aint seen nuthin yet"
There will be hell to pay over this.

 

[oldgroaner]

while we are still in the brexit phase (for the next 10 years, in, out or still negotiating), it is unlikely that any government will command a large majority because of the 48/52 split.
The hard brexiters will continue to leverage on the right wing press to multiply their influence.

And above the Front door of the Telegraph, Daily Mail and Express the motto
"
Te potest mutare virtutem publica omni tempore

But for how much longer I wonder?

 

[flecc]

Does anybody actually know where Corbyn stands on Brexit. I don't think I,ve heard him mention it. Seems he sort of supports it.???

He has mentioned it. He is pro EU but has said he will abide by the referendum result.

No different from Theresa May in fact, since she was also a remainer.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Not so. Your mistake is that for years, like so much of the UK public, you've believed the Tory lies that our socialists like Jeremy Corbyn are extreme left wing, almost akin to communists.

In mainland Europe Jeremy Corbyn would be viewed as simply a socialist, not at all extreme. He has much in common with Clement Attlee and his 1945 government, and no-one views them as extreme left wing now. Most are very thankful that they were once in power.
.

Perhaps flecc but irrespective of how far left he is we will never see him in no10..How he is viewed abroad is irrelevant ,his policies on defence, taxation,social services and especially nuclear deterrent IMO make him well towards left.
And BTW flecc your stance on saying right wing press have affected his popularity is conflicting with your opinion labour won this election. You cant have it both ways flecc. Either right wing press destroyed him ( which they tried) or he was successful in this election. The pair are mutually exclusive.
One thing this election has shown is we over estimate power of press. Even Campbell thinks Mail were doing Corbyn a favour. People are not as easily manipulated as its suggested. Had Mail had any real influence nobody would have voted for Corbyn.

 

[Zlatan]

He has mentioned it. He is pro EU but has said he will abide by the referendum result.

No different from Theresa May in fact, since she was also a remainer.
.

It was said last night that TM was a secret leaver , only showing her true colours after referendum. But then again successful politicians don't have true colours. They seem to adopt anything to stay in power...so who knows.

 

[Woosh]

But for how much longer I wonder?

in the new social networking age?

a very long time, better get used to it or like me, ignore them altogether.

 

[Woosh]

He has mentioned it. He is pro EU but has said he will abide by the referendum result.

he could have said 'I abide by the result but I agree that each and every MP in the Labour movement can follow their own conscience'.
That would have made him more acceptable to most.

 

[Zlatan]

As usual you manage to be utterly wrong, the opportunity was missed by May to make her position fireproof and Corbyn was saved by the bell from suffering from the backlash to come when Brexit goes bottom up.
And then you ramble on as usual about Corbyn's intentions.
What the hell good would a landslide victory have been for Labour? unless Corbyn had simply cancelled Brexit on the spot he would have shared the fate waiting to destroy the Tory party.

Of course Labour will benefit from Brexit, it already has otherwise the Tory party would have had their 100 plus majority.
Where and why did so many more people vote for them?

There might be more mileage for you to consider this question, Why did May try so hard to lose the election?
She was acting as Boris does in trying to get herself the sack with as poor a campaign as that.
It was in fact so poor, it even made some of your arguments appear to verge on being credible.

Because he could have campaigned on doing exactly that and if possible carried it out. His stance on Brexit has neither helped or hindered. And as normal you tell me I,m wrong....Opinions are opinions OG. Yours and mine may differ but neither are wrong..so stop doing it. Yes , express your OPINIONS but stop being righteous and assuming yours are some how superior.
May attempted to make her position fire proof but in doing ran an awful campaign, weakening her position, but don't underestimate her or Tories.( Labour have done that for 30 years now)
They are still stronger than labour and I suspect will only get stronger ( unfortunately)
Corbyn bribed the young vote which was a big mistake. Folk are already saying he made promises he cant deliver ( Tuition fees for a start). Imagine what next Tory campaign will legitmately be saying..
Labour should sack Corbyn now. It was in reality ab abject failure.

 

[oldgroaner]

Because he could have campaigned on doing exactly that and if possible carried it out. His stance on Brexit has neither helped or hindered. And as normal you tell me I,m wrong....Opinions are opinions OG. Yours and mine may differ but neither are wrong..so stop doing it. Yes , express your OPINIONS but stop being righteous and assuming yours are some how superior.
May attempted to make her position fire proof but in doing ran an awful campaign, weakening her position, but don't underestimate her or Tories.( Labour have done that for 30 years now)
They are still stronger than labour and I suspect will only get stronger ( unfortunately)
Corbyn bribed the young vote which was a big mistake. Folk are already saying he made promises he cant deliver ( Tuition fees for a start). Imagine what next Tory campaign will legitmately be saying..
Labour should sack Corbyn now. It was in reality ab abject failure.

Take your own advice and do try to thoroughly understand that a situation is evolving that is considerably more complex than your Corbyn lost and that's it view.
The real losers are the Tory party and they know it, worse still so do the EU

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[Zlatan]

Take your own advice[emoji1]

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I did weeks ago.