Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

I had a flying Scott ... I have no recollection of exchanges, I'm off to oil my chain.

The last time I heard it put in that way was from a late 1950's Teddy Boy.
Not you of course!
And for the Edification of Sassenachs who have no idea what we Scot's mean by "Flying Scot" it isn't a Steam Train, lookee here
http://www.flying-scot.com/core/welcome.html
Scotland's Finest!
And possibly the only civilised thing to ever come out of Glasgow (present company excepted)
My ancestors by the way were not civilised, even though from the other side of the country as they were Clan Bell.

 

[oldgroaner]

then it's a minefield, not icebergs.

I stand corrected

 

[oldgroaner]

and still is as it is confirmed by the majority of MPs. Have you you detected some significant change?

This is fascinating! are you developing a theory that Politicians are actually being guided by the will of the people?
Well I never! does anyone else subscribe to this novel concept?

If that catches on we'll all be wearing Che Guevara "T" shirts with Mrs May's Face grimacing under her Beret.
It won't do, I'm revolting.
(This is where I expect to score my first Agree from tillson and Zlatan at the same time)

 

[flecc]

And for the Edification of Sassenachs who have no idea what we Scot's mean by "Flying Scot" it isn't a Steam Train, lookee here
http://www.flying-scot.com/core/welcome.html
Scotland's Finest!

But there's also Yorkshire's Flying Scotts, the Squirrels:

I had a flying Scott

Seems like D8ve might have had a later one:

 

[oldgroaner]

But there's also Yorkshire's Flying Scotts, the Squirrels:

Seems like D8ve might have had a later one:

They were very popular touring bikes, but very expensive

 

[oldtom]

With few exceptions, it matters not which newspaper you waste your money on or whether you entrust Sky or BBC to provide your daily news dose. This is how things are in 'UK.com':



Tom

 

[Woosh]

This is fascinating! are you developing a theory that Politicians are actually being guided by the will of the people?

they are of course minding that about 2 out of 3 conservative seats and labour seats are brexit territories.
so yes, they reflect the will of the people.

 

[oldgroaner]

they are of course minding that about 2 out of 3 conservative seats and labour seats are brexit territories.
so yes, they reflect the will of the people.

Just one problem with the maths involved when about 70% of the population DIDN'T vote FOR Brexit did they?
How can your statement be correct?
Politicians are in fact only reflecting the wishes of at best a FACTION of the public Because it suits their purpose.
They cannot be said to reflect the will of the people on the basis of 30% support, they are in fact going ahead to please a Faction aren't they? Not the Majority.

 

[Woosh]

How can your statement be correct?

by deduction.
principle: the will of the people is represented by MPs.
fact: the majority of MPs voted for A50 bill which enables brexit
deduction: the will of the people is brexit.

 

[oldgroaner]

by deduction.
principle: the will of the people is represented by MPs.
fact: the majority voted to A50 bill which enables brexit
deduction: the will of the people is brexit.

Sorry but that is pure fiction, you can only say it won a vote in a referendum at a particular date, on the basis of lies promises and propaganda, and the problem is that when things go wrong, this argument will ensure trouble, as people will say, hang on who are these people this is the will of? and what became of the promises of better times?
it wasn't us!
It's no good voting for the opposition, there isn't any, and then there will be bigger trouble than the dozen or so protesters Farage managed to raise outside the supreme court.
All the Government is doing is lighting the fuse, with luck it won't be connected at the other end to something nasty.
All we have at this point in time is a hope that things will not go disastrously wrong.
It's a hell of a risk just to make the rich richer without any chance of benefitting the public at large or achieving any of the stated objectives, which the Government have already backed out of even this early on.

 

[Zlatan]

Don't forget the Silk...was a copy of Scott ( well sort if)
The Scott was years before its time utilising a two stroke engine...had best power to weight ratio of any engine...which is still case with two strokes..
The Silk used an almost identical engine to Scott...in the 70's...

Mountainsport
You haven't got the idea of this forum yet. OG, Flecc and Tom decide what facts are..if its in support of remain..no evidence is required. If its for Brexit you,ll need a signed letter from a dead relative in support of your claims about facts..
For example..
There have been no wars in Europe since 1945.( well sort of if you are a anti Brexit) We are in EU..so vis a vie EU has stopped all wars in Europe..no evidence required. All facts.
If you say hang on a minute other things have contributed...you,ll need a medium, pen and paper and ubtil that happens...no facts accepted.
By the Way..France started conflict in Vietnam..( earlier post, telling me I,m thick) but before we were in EU, as was Australia's involvement.
Saying EU has prevented war in Europe is ridiculous. It has done no such thing...but again remain know a negative cant be proved...we cant prove EU hasn't prevented war...so on here its a fact it has... Ask flecc, KTM,OG and Tom , they are only ones who are clever enough to know what facts are...( in their opinions of course)
Myself , Tillson,Gray and Woosh spend lots of time trying to get letters from dead relatives..You,ll be same I,m afraid..

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

.

Ok, then Zlatan, lets try to make this more positive.

Which country do you want the UK to be like, or what model are you hoping we'll be able to adopt.

Sell it to us.

 

[Danidl]

Don't forget the Silk...was a copy of Scott ( well sort if)
The Scott was years before its time utilising a two stroke engine...had best power to weight ratio of any engine...which is still case with two strokes..
The Silk used an almost identical engine to Scott...in the 70's...

Mountainsport
You haven't got the idea of this forum yet. OG, Flecc and Tom decide what facts are..if its in support of remain..no evidence is required. If its for Brexit you,ll need a signed letter from a dead relative in support of your claims about facts..
For example..
There have been no wars in Europe since 1945.( well sort of if you are a anti Brexit) We are in EU..so vis a vie EU has stopped all wars in Europe..no evidence required. All facts.
If you say hang on a minute other things have contributed...you,ll need a medium, pen and paper and ubtil that happens...no facts accepted.
By the Way..France started conflict in Vietnam..( earlier post, telling me I,m thick) but before we were in EU, as was Australia's involvement.
Saying EU has prevented war in Europe is ridiculous. It has done no such thing...but again remain know a negative cant be proved...we cant prove EU hasn't prevented war...so on here its a fact it has... Ask flecc, KTM,OG and Tom , they are only ones who are clever enough to know what facts are...( in their opinions of course)
Myself , Tillson,Gray and Woosh spend lots of time trying to get letters from dead relatives..You,ll be same I,m afraid..

... Still tenuous relationship with facts. The French were in Vietnam as colonists from at least the 1880s and the war commenced in 1946 as a war of independence, with communist backing.
Your comment in respect to Australia was that they had not been involved in any war since WW2. I was correcting that record.
Wilkipedi is a source of facts external to any of the names you mentioned.

In respect of relative peace within EU Europe post 1945, I will concur with you that there were and are multiple reasons , some of which you have listed, and the difficulty of proving an negative and I would include two others the enhanced dialogue between states with shared values, reduces the temperature, and the existence of a dispute resolving mechanism of the ECJ

 

[Zlatan]

Ok, then Zlatan, lets try to make this more positive.

Which country do you want the UK to be like, or what model are you hoping we'll be able to adopt.

Sell it to us.

The UK model.
Away from the oppression and fascist regime the EU has become. They will never take our freedom.
Taxation without representation ...( or whatever Mel shouted in the Patriot sounded rather good don't you think)

 

[Zlatan]

... Still tenuous relationship with facts. The French were in Vietnam as colonists from at least the 1880s and the war commenced in 1946 as a war of independence, with communist backing.
Your comment in respect to Australia was that they had not been involved in any war since WW2. I was correcting that record.
Wilkipedi is a source of facts external to any of the names you mentioned.

In respect of relative peace within Europe post 1945, I will concur with you that there were and are multiple reasons , some of which you have listed, and the difficulty of proving an negative and I would include two others the enhanced dialogue between states with shared values, reduces the temperature, and the existence of a dispute resolving mechanism of the ECJ

Not sure I said since WW2, if I did it was a mistake. I meant to say since EU formed, which is a bit obvious really, since the claim was EU has prevented war, I don't think even Tom or OG would claim EU had prevented something before it existed.
I,m on it tho Danidl, just booked a medium. I,ll get proof EU has not kept peace since.....errr..1945. ( are we including Falklands, The bloke with wardrobe full of shoes,and all the terrorist attacks or are we ignoring those and similar in our settled Europe, )
And how do we resolve the little Elephant in room that is Nato, oh and all the countries in Europe outside EU and America...and Nuclear capability...and ...quite a few other things...its easier to just say..yep ok. EU has stopped war in Europe...but we all know it has not..

 

[Woosh]

Sorry but that is pure fiction, you can only say it won a vote in a referendum at a particular date, on the basis of lies promises and propaganda, and the problem is that when things go wrong, this argument will ensure trouble, as people will say, hang on who are these people this is the will of? and what became of the promises of better times?
it wasn't us!
It's no good voting for the opposition, there isn't any, and then there will be bigger trouble than the dozen or so protesters Farage managed to raise outside the supreme court.
All the Government is doing is lighting the fuse, with luck it won't be connected at the other end to something nasty.
All we have at this point in time is a hope that things will not go disastrously wrong.
It's a hell of a risk just to make the rich richer without any chance of benefitting the public at large or achieving any of the stated objectives, which the Government have already backed out of even this early on.

good job that we are humans, not machines.
You can of course put your own interpretation on the observed local results of the referendum.
If you chuck the known voting results into a machine, you can't escape the conclusion that the will of the people is brexit. There is no other way to reprogram the machine for it to agree with your interpretation.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

The UK model.
Away from the oppression and fascist regime the EU has become. They will never take our freedom.
Taxation without representation ...( or whatever Mel shouted in the Patriot sounded rather good don't you think)

ok, so what does this UK model look like? sell it to me, so I can get on side.

Does it involve Scotland leaving?

 

[Zlatan]

Its quite ironic that Brexiteers on here are told we have ( ok I have) a tenuous link to facts but all remain are quite happy saying EU has prevented war in Europe. Its such a broad , sweeping statement , containing no facts at all .
It could easily be said the two things are totally disrelated.

 

[flecc]

Don't forget the Silk...was a copy of Scott ( well sort if)
The Scott was years before its time utilising a two stroke engine...had best power to weight ratio of any engine...which is still case with two strokes..
The Silk used an almost identical engine to Scott...in the 70's...

I didn't, the second photo in my above post was of a 1970 George Silk Scott.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Important technical shizzle for you all to log in your brains... summary of the EU stance now its been revealed...

(taken from https://www.facebook.com/scientistsforeu/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf)

The European Parliament has overwhelmingly (516 to 133) passed a resolution setting out its red lines on Brexit. The resolution makes clear that:

*The UK will not be given even similar benefits as being in the Single Market and Customs Union, let alone the exact same benefits, as had been promised.

*The UK is unable to start negotiating trade deals with non-EU countries in advance of its withdrawal.

*Parallelism is out: substantial progress has to be made on the withdrawal agreement before talks can start on transition or future trade, and a future trade deal can only be agreed once the withdrawal agreement is agreed.

*The EU expects a financial payment as part of the withdrawal agreement.

*A future trade deal would need to include equivalence in key areas including competition, trade and social policy, which means a bonfire of regulations is incompatible with a new UK-EU FTA.

*There will be no sectoral deals that replicate the exact same benefits as being in the single market and customs union.

*There could be a transitional deal, but for a maximum of three years, during which period the ECJ would have legal authority.

... Any Brexit deal would have to be ratified by the European Parliament, as well as by the member states.