Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

... last I looked the Falklands were somewhat remote from Europe. So no won't include them.
There have been wars in Europe since 1945, and if one includes the Ukraine, as I would., there is still a current one. What there has not been is war between EU or EEC members. That is a fact. Whether the EU is the sole reason for this happy outcome cannot be verified or denied, what can be verified is that one of the causes for actually instituting the EEC was precisely to assist in avoiding these conflicts. The speeches of the" founding fathers " at the commencement of the EU makes that clear.

 

[flecc]

Mountainsport
You haven't got the idea of this forum yet. OG, Flecc and Tom decide what facts are..if its in support of remain..no evidence is required. If its for Brexit you,ll need a signed letter from a dead relative in support of your claims about facts..
For example..
There have been no wars in Europe since 1945.( well sort of if you are a anti Brexit) We are in EU..so vis a vie EU has stopped all wars in Europe..no evidence required. All facts.
If you say hang on a minute other things have contributed...you,ll need a medium, pen and paper and ubtil that happens...no facts accepted.
By the Way..France started conflict in Vietnam..( earlier post, telling me I,m thick) but before we were in EU, as was Australia's involvement.
Saying EU has prevented war in Europe is ridiculous. It has done no such thing...but again remain know a negative cant be proved...we cant prove EU hasn't prevented war...so on here its a fact it has... Ask flecc, KTM,OG and Tom , they are only ones who are clever enough to know what facts are...( in their opinions of course)
Myself , Tillson,Gray and Woosh spend lots of time trying to get letters from dead relatives..You,ll be same I,m afraid..

How many times do I have to ask you not to include me when I shouldn't be included Zlatan?

I have never claimed that the EU has prevented war. Nor have I made claims about the EU's performance, being well aware of its numerous faults.

What I have done on more than one occasion is say why I think we should not go it alone. Namely that we were in a seemingly unstoppable steep decline in the quarter century from the end of WW2 until we joined the Common Market. From then we started to recover and have grown throughout the evolution of the Common Market into the EU.

But I've never said that was entirely due to the EU, it may be, it may not be, it may partially be, but I know of no other reason for our recovery in that period.

So once again, please stop posting falsehoods about me.
.
.

 

[Zlatan]

... last I looked the Falklands were somewhat remote from Europe. So no won't include them.
There have been wars in Europe since 1945, and if one includes the Ukraine, as I would., there is still a current one. What there has not been is war between EU or EEC members. That is a fact. Whether the EU is the sole reason for this happy outcome cannot be verified or denied, what can be verified is that one of the causes for actually instituting the EEC was precisely to assist in avoiding these conflicts. The speeches of the" founding fathers " at the commencement of the EU makes that clear.

Yes, I agree with those sentiments, rather different from previous sweeping statements..( not necessarily yours)

 

[Zlatan]

How many times do I have to ask you not to include me when I shouldn't be included Zlatan?

I have never claimed that the EU has prevented war. Nor have I made claims about the EU's performance, being well aware of its numerous faults.

What I have done on more than one occasion is say why I think we should not go it alone. Namely that we were in a seemingly unstoppable steep decline in the quarter century from the end of WW2 until we joined the Common Market. From then we started to recover and have grown throughout the evolution of the Common Market into the EU.

But I've never said that was entirely due to the EU, it may be, it may not be, it may partially be, but I know of no other reason for our recovery in that period.

So once again, please stop posting falsehoods about me.
.
.

Apologies flecc. My last couple of posts ( all of them perhaps) were attempts at humour...

 

[Danidl]

Important technical shizzle for you all to log in your brains... summary of the EU stance now its been revealed...

(taken from https://www.facebook.com/scientistsforeu/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf)

The European Parliament has overwhelmingly (516 to 133) passed a resolution setting out its red lines on Brexit. The resolution makes clear that:

*The UK will not be given even similar benefits as being in the Single Market and Customs Union, let alone the exact same benefits, as had been promised.

*The UK is unable to start negotiating trade deals with non-EU countries in advance of its withdrawal.

*Parallelism is out: substantial progress has to be made on the withdrawal agreement before talks can start on transition or future trade, and a future trade deal can only be agreed once the withdrawal agreement is agreed.

*The EU expects a financial payment as part of the withdrawal agreement.

*A future trade deal would need to include equivalence in key areas including competition, trade and social policy, which means a bonfire of regulations is incompatible with a new UK-EU FTA.

*There will be no sectoral deals that replicate the exact same benefits as being in the single market and customs union.

*There could be a transitional deal, but for a maximum of three years, during which period the ECJ would have legal authority.

... Any Brexit deal would have to be ratified by the European Parliament, as well as by the member states.

... All of the above were predictable and many stated prior to and post the referendum... Except the last statement. I am not aware that any individual national parliament holds a veto. There would be no value in having qualified majority voting in the EU parliament otherwise.

 

[Zlatan]

Apologies flecc. My last couple of posts ( all of them perhaps) were attempts at humour...

How can anyone in their right mind dislike this comment...think I,ve answered that..

 

[oldgroaner]

Don't forget the Silk...was a copy of Scott ( well sort if)
The Scott was years before its time utilising a two stroke engine...had best power to weight ratio of any engine...which is still case with two strokes..
The Silk used an almost identical engine to Scott...in the 70's...

Mountainsport
You haven't got the idea of this forum yet. OG, Flecc and Tom decide what facts are..if its in support of remain..no evidence is required. If its for Brexit you,ll need a signed letter from a dead relative in support of your claims about facts..
For example..
There have been no wars in Europe since 1945.( well sort of if you are a anti Brexit) We are in EU..so vis a vie EU has stopped all wars in Europe..no evidence required. All facts.
If you say hang on a minute other things have contributed...you,ll need a medium, pen and paper and ubtil that happens...no facts accepted.
By the Way..France started conflict in Vietnam..( earlier post, telling me I,m thick) but before we were in EU, as was Australia's involvement.
Saying EU has prevented war in Europe is ridiculous. It has done no such thing...but again remain know a negative cant be proved...we cant prove EU hasn't prevented war...so on here its a fact it has... Ask flecc, KTM,OG and Tom , they are only ones who are clever enough to know what facts are...( in their opinions of course)
Myself , Tillson,Gray and Woosh spend lots of time trying to get letters from dead relatives..You,ll be same I,m afraid..

You don't actually have to keep trying to make a fool of yourself, if you have achieved nothing else you have convinced is of that zatalan

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[oldgroaner]

The UK model.
Away from the oppression and fascist regime the EU has become. They will never take our freedom.
Taxation without representation ...( or whatever Mel shouted in the Patriot sounded rather good don't you think)

Boy! Are you deluded if you think you are going to get that, it must be 364 days to your first birthday[emoji1]

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[oldgroaner]

good job that we are humans, not machines.
You can of course put your own interpretation on the observed local results of the referendum.
If you chuck the known voting results into a machine, you can't escape the conclusion that the will of the people is brexit. There is no other way to reprogram the machine for it to agree with your interpretation.

And no way you can evade the fact it was only the will of a small faction, and too small a margin at that

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[Woosh]

Important technical shizzle for you all to log in your brains... summary of the EU stance now its been revealed...

(taken from https://www.facebook.com/scientistsforeu/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf)

The European Parliament has overwhelmingly (516 to 133) passed a resolution setting out its red lines on Brexit. The resolution makes clear that:

*The UK will not be given even similar benefits as being in the Single Market and Customs Union, let alone the exact same benefits, as had been promised.

*The UK is unable to start negotiating trade deals with non-EU countries in advance of its withdrawal.

*Parallelism is out: substantial progress has to be made on the withdrawal agreement before talks can start on transition or future trade, and a future trade deal can only be agreed once the withdrawal agreement is agreed.

*The EU expects a financial payment as part of the withdrawal agreement.

*A future trade deal would need to include equivalence in key areas including competition, trade and social policy, which means a bonfire of regulations is incompatible with a new UK-EU FTA.

*There will be no sectoral deals that replicate the exact same benefits as being in the single market and customs union.

*There could be a transitional deal, but for a maximum of three years, during which period the ECJ would have legal authority.

... Any Brexit deal would have to be ratified by the European Parliament, as well as by the member states.

I do particularly like the idea of 'keeping the equivalence in key areas including competition, trade and social policy'.
it seems to me that remainers are going to get the deal they want, we are getting to keep the status quo for possibly as long as 3 years after brexit.
Plenty of time to see where we are going.

 

[oldgroaner]

Its quite ironic that Brexiteers on here are told we have ( ok I have) a tenuous link to facts but all remain are quite happy saying EU has prevented war in Europe. Its such a broad , sweeping statement , containing no facts at all .
It could easily be said the two things are totally disrelated.

Pity that the absence of war for the longest period in hundreds of years isn't proof enough, but what can you expect?
Too hard for you to understand was it?

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[oldgroaner]

How many times do I have to ask you not to include me when I shouldn't be included Zlatan?

I have never claimed that the EU has prevented war. Nor have I made claims about the EU's performance, being well aware of its numerous faults.

What I have done on more than one occasion is say why I think we should not go it alone. Namely that we were in a seemingly unstoppable steep decline in the quarter century from the end of WW2 until we joined the Common Market. From then we started to recover and have grown throughout the evolution of the Common Market into the EU.

But I've never said that was entirely due to the EU, it may be, it may not be, it may partially be, but I know of no other reason for our recovery in that period.

So once again, please stop posting falsehoods about me.
.
.

If he does that what is there left for him to say?

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[oldgroaner]

Apologies flecc. My last couple of posts ( all of them perhaps) were attempts at humour...

Do try and give us early warning in case anyone mistakenly takes you seriously

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[oldgroaner]

How can anyone in their right mind dislike this comment...think I,ve answered that..

Aren't you supposed to wait and see?

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[Woosh]

And no way you can evade the fact it was only the will of a small faction, and too small a margin at that

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before the Gina Miller's case in the High Court, we all agreed that parliament should represent the will of the people.
After parliament has voted for brexit, we all agreed that parliament should now scrutinize the process.
Are you saying that the parliament should hand back the job to the people?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Well here's some interesting data

The chart that shows that British people were not particularly bothered about the EU until the Tories foisted their bitter internal civil war onto the country as a whole.

 

[oldgroaner]

before the Gina Miller's case in the High Court, we all agreed that parliament should represent the will of the people.
After parliament has voted for brexit, we all agreed that parliament should now scrutinize the process.
Are you saying that the parliament should hand back the job to the people?

When we find out what the terms are, yes indeed, the people should have the chance to back out if they want to, after all they made the choice, and they should choose whether they accept it or not

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[oldtom]

How can anyone in their right mind dislike this comment...think I,ve answered that..

Perhaps he just dislikes your pathetic excuse (and used not for the first time!) that you were attempting to be funny or perhaps he dislikes you and everything about you, as I do, given the nonsense you continue to post while ignoring the increasing number of flaws and problems for the UK's future emerging now on an almost daily basis.

Has no-one on your own planet ever posted you missing? Actually, don't answer that as I can guess why that has probably never happened. I'm sure, even in the world of trolls, you give trolling a bad name.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

When we find out what the terms are, yes indeed, the people should have the chance to back out if they want to, after all they made the choice, and they should choose whether they accept it or not

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and who will decide to have another referendum? why would you want to entrust this task to the same MPs you did not trust to enable A50?
The way the EU works is quite simple, as JC Juncker said: 'there can be no democratic choice against the european treaties'.
Keep voting until most of those who disagree with the EU stop voting.
I am not selling brexit - just content to spell out the problems with remaining.

PS: BTW, some remainers use dislikes/disagrees to make a point.
I much prefer to read about your views.

 

[Woosh]

Well here's some interesting data

The chart that shows that British people were not particularly bothered about the EU until the Tories foisted their bitter internal civil war onto the country as a whole.

and who gave them the majority so they can kick out the LibDems?