Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Once again, you have crawled out from under your stone and produced yet another work of nonsense with criticism of OG. If you can't say anything good about people, nor are you able to describe how 'Bexit' will improve the lot of the British people, then crawl back under your stone and let we Ebikers get on with our discussions of this ever-changing situation.
Tom
And replace them with what exactly. Jeremy Castro or Farron or best option UKIP. I have posted the question several times when posters have been criticising Theresa May. Who would you replace her with. Probably the best of a very nondescript bunch
I'm no fan of the current conservative government, but currently a snap general election wouldn't benefit anyone I suspect. Also with the new fixed term rules its very unlikely. To be honest I think our best hope of solving this mess is we give the Tory Government the way out they are looking for. I suspect as soon as they are confident staying in the EU won't cost them the next general election, they'll stay. They just have to ride out the next few months of economic pain, then they can say they tried, but its clearly not in the countries interests and we can all get on with getting back to where we were and focus on the other things they are destroying currently.
why does it have to be either May or Corbyn?
As soon as the tories lose their majority, this country cannot be held to ransom any more.
As soon as the tories lose their majority, this country cannot be held to ransom any more.
Please admin can we have an ignore thread function.
This is pointless inane argument. The only saving grace is it may be keeping one ore more trolls busy here rather than harming a more sensitive audience.
This is pointless inane argument. The only saving grace is it may be keeping one ore more trolls busy here rather than harming a more sensitive audience.
Why? We've all got one built in. I regularly ignore threads that I know don't interest me.
What I don't want to do is censor what others might enjoy.
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Thank you for responding.
The argument that the EU is less important in terms of world trade Than 40 years ago, is undoubtedly true. In part this is because the EU population has remained static while the population of the rest has near doubled China 40 years ago was only becoming active in the economic world. India , Pakistan were decidedly third world countries with periodically severe famines. But Europe or USA standards of living is what these countries are still aspiring.
As a member of the EU, the UK remains one amongst equals and can could forge trade deals provided they were also of benefit to the other members of the same club. What these economists to which you refer are seeking is to have the UK in competition with the EU. I am not sufficiently versed in economics theory to compare the relevent of their contributions, but are there not also equally authorative economists holding contrary views?
It is your opinion that the EU is a failed experiment, I would hold a contrary view. Were it so would the aspirant countries from the former eastern block have wished to join? The reunification of Germany must rank as one of the major success stories of the latter part of the last century. That it was achieved without war is was an EEC triumph. I am not stating that all the EU is perfect, it's response over the conflicts in Yougoslavia fell well short off acceptable.
The behaviour of the EU central bank in respect of Ireland, was appalling, but discussion on this would take longer than I intend on a post. This central bank was setup without adequate oversight.
Ireland's problem was unfortunately of our own making not the EU. We were a highly successful economy, assisted by the EU, into about 1995, with a feelgood factor Irish people borrowed at low interest rates, money which Germans had invested at low rates of return in their banks. We invested in roads and other infrastructure, but also housing at unsustainable rates, working on the assumption that there would be inward migration. .. When there was a financial crisis, we were in a very vulnerable position. However, with support of the EU, we are still viable , although with a large debt, and improving...
I cannot see how a devaluation would have helped Ireland, it would have increased external debt. Our problem was not an overvalued currency.
My three reasons
Social ... The EU remains embedded in what would viewed as a person centred social democratic society ideal, with human rights and individual freedom high on the agenda. Such activities as the Erasmus programme in the QUB report is only part of it
Free movement of citizens... Not since the time of the Roman empire has their been as free movement in Europe.
Strength through numbers .... A population base of 600 million gives Europe clout in the world.
There are many more reasons.
To save me the constant reminders that new posts have arrived. It's lazy but you don't need to use the ignore function.
Very good post Danidl, I respect your opinions but don't agree with them all. That's why we had a vote. For example, all eu on one currency,fiscal policy with such disparate economies with no balance procedures ( apart from bail outs) simply can not work. Its exactly why Greece and co have had such problems...only way for it to work is to build a united states of Europe, which would take another 50 years...in mean time what would happen. Sort out Greece and tax situation, Italy and corruption and various other stumbling blocks and in an ideal world it might work...we don't live in an ideal world. Germany,s response at one stage during Greek turmoil was to swap Greek islands for low %age loans..Whilst ever eu is made of independantly governed states, grappling for their own development. ( ie Germany and particularly Luxembourg) it simply can not work. The EU is not united. Its a trading block. No more. You can not draw comparison with USA , even if you do...ok if you happen to be California..different if Alabama..
Remainers ( IMO) are idealists.I,m a pragmatist. UK can and will flourish outside EU. Greece, Spain, Italy and a few others will have big big issues for decades, much of their own doing.
Have a friend who owns bars and a dive business in Koss. Asked him about tax. What tax was his reply. He pays mayor a backhander every 6 months. Italy is worse . Sort all these problems and I,d vote to stay..next time..perhaps.
Governments primary objective should be to protect its own people. We cant drag whole of EU into an ideal place...leave them be..get out whilst we can.
And yes EU has fantastic claims and ideologies but in practice look what is happening...
When its bad remainers blame individual countries, when its good eu is given responsibility.
In reality what has eu really achieved ? Its made Luxembourg 2nd richest country in world...
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I can say this without being patronising, condescending or insulting.
You have confirmed yourself to be a liar, and your opinions, presented merely to annoy, like you have no value.
I have offered no insult to you, merely pointed out the way that you have clearly lied.
Your off topic posts usually include and attack on others as indeed you managed to attack me in this last post of yours.
You protest about the way you are treated in every post regardless of the fact that there is often no cause whatever, and you do not like your own statements being put up as evidence of your behaviour do you?
Perhaps you do not realise you are doing the very thing you accuse others of with such alarming regularity?
Thank you for your confirmation of what we already knew.
The only interest you ever express is your own personal financial gain, and nothing else matters.
There's one already its called a "cabinet"for what its worth, we major on "justifying and repeating" on this threadperhaps may should create a ministry for that with brexit
May the May be with you!
"Brexit is Brexit!"
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I don't use reminders so aren't bothered in that way.
When I come in I just use Forums drop-down menu, New Posts and just choose the ones I go to.
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OG
How on earth am I making financial gain with brexit ?? Are you smoking some bad weed or something...you really are quite mad , in both senses of word.
How on earth am I making financial gain with brexit ?? Are you smoking some bad weed or something...you really are quite mad , in both senses of word.
well I found this useful..
One to show people when they talk about hard and soft Brexit.
The vote was the leave the EU... yes?
Just the EU?
One to show people when they talk about hard and soft Brexit.
The vote was the leave the EU... yes?
Just the EU?
1. The eurozone is not the EU. As UK and a few others have shown it is feasible to be in the EU while not being in the eurozone. So in the context of the EU that is a red herring.
2. The Greek situation is , according to your post due to local corruption, the EU does not have a police force and is dependent on the national governments playing fair . The courts of auditors of the EU will investigate findings after the event and can only prevent additional funds being wasted.
3 Every state has poorer and richer regions, whether it is at the level of streets, districts, canton's , counties, . Federal regions etc. This is true either within or without the EU. So why make this a case either for or against?
4 neither Germany or Luxembourg are the EU. The policies that individual countries may advocate are simply that . The EU works on agreement by all or now on a qualified majority basis, . If UK remains a member it can participate, if or when it leaves it cannot. The countries within the EU agree on specific policies and then carry them out in unison. They trade individual autonomy for collective action. If a country renegades on an agreement they made, they then are answerable to the EU courts.
5. The principle of accepting credit and attributing blame elsewhere is not unique to remainers or brexiteers , it is common to all political parties and institutions.so in what way does this advance the arguments for leaving the EU.?
well I found this useful..
One to show people when they talk about hard and soft Brexit.
The vote was the leave the EU... yes?
Just the EU?
A very useful and informative graphic
Once again you have resorted to an ad hominem response with absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
If you re-read your posts, you will find exactly why OG mentioned financial gain - he didn't make it up; it came from you!
If you want to contribute something to get the attention of readers, why don't you tell us how and when we might recognise an improved UK, economically, politically, socially or in terms of immigration, employment or indeed any other way. I ask because there is no point at all making any decision which might be subsequently described as 'out of the frying pan into the fire'. You won't do that though, will you?
Tom
Oh good grief, are you really unable to understand your own posts? every single one attacks the EU and only on the grounds of Money, money money, and who is making it, or how much of yours might be at risk.
You attribute every ill in every country to the EU and exonerate the parliaments of these countries, and every argument you propose concerns profit.
Your hero's are all without exception financial sharks of the worst order who think a policy of slash and burn is good husbandry, and you never have a good word to say concerning the social benefits of either leaving or remaining in the EU,
Basically you come over quite clearly as a compulsive gambler with no thought for anyone else, driven by greed, and if you can't see yourself as you really are, that is no fault of mine, I neither smoke, drink or take the sort of Drugs you seem fixated on.
Why does someone with your blinkered view of reality support Brexit even though they couldn't be bothered to vote for it?
Simply so that they can involve themselves in spurious arguments which is after all what you do.
To you it offers nuisance value and lets be honest you see the gleam of profit somewhere in there, don't you?
Ironically you really have no idea of how to turn that fantasy into reality, do you?
Hence you have never been able to offer anything positive in favour of Brexit.
I dont quite understand how you can argue individual autonomy for countries within EU and for eu to be effective. In my opinion they are mutually exclusive.
Yes autonomy is great for your own country but that very aspect you mention produces the very issue condeming the EU to fail...how in earth can 27 ( 28 ?) autonomous states make agreements that must damage themselves for mutual benefit of all...it simply can not work..Its the same with fiscal policy and its the aspect which will ( has) led to the useless pink elephant we call Brussels.
For it to work eu needs ,for want of a better word, sovereignty over its members. Its exactly why most powerful get more so and poorer likewise.
Why has Luxembourg attracted all major corporations ? Greece, none. Why has Germany invested billions b its industry and Spain virtually none. Bin
Its easy to speak with great principles but making them policies is impossible. If it wasn't poverty would be randomly spread throughout EU, its distribution has not altered in the slightest, infact across EU the ratio of rich to poor has widened , compare Luxembourg with Ireland?
The EU has achieved nothing towards eliminating poverty. Ask Mr Junkers why not ?
If by your argument individual countries are responsible for their own well being, or lack of it,exactly what purpose is eu serving ? Watching out for the poor it helps create in Spain?
And the argument the EU does nit help create them is completely spurious. Luxembourg steals tax from every eu member by undercutting tax charges other countries are not allowed to impose. That system cost American government 95 billion in lost tax revenue in 2014. Your eu encourages this ?
The EU is a,trading block, no more no less. Remainers are putting ideological expectations that it simply can not achieve in its current form.
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