Nice find Sir!
I have come across those words previously but I couldn't have told you whose words they were so thanks for putting it up.
It reminded me somewhat of this:
View attachment 17290
Tom
....... And you know this for a fact?
Nice find Sir!
I have come across those words previously but I couldn't have told you whose words they were so thanks for putting it up.
It reminded me somewhat of this:
View attachment 17290
Tom
Once again, you have crawled out from under your stone and produced yet another work of nonsense with criticism of OG. If you can't say anything good about people, nor are you able to describe how 'Bexit' will improve the lot of the British people, then crawl back under your stone and let we Ebikers get on with our discussions of this ever-changing situation.OG
Its plainly evident I support leaving and yes I said I didn't vote, I also said my name is Zlatan and I live in north pole. All white lies to try and reduce the ** leavers get on here.. Seemed slightly more balanced to claim I,d " sat on fence"
Were you really christened Old Groaner...very perceptive parents..
Besides its totally OT ,which you normally object to, but again ironic since all your BS is ...
And replace them with what exactly. Jeremy Castro or Farron or best option UKIP. I have posted the question several times when posters have been criticising Theresa May. Who would you replace her with. Probably the best of a very nondescript bunchEven if another referendum reverses the last, I doubt that the margin will be big enough to be convincing.
The only way is to remove the tories from power for a generation.
I'm no fan of the current conservative government, but currently a snap general election wouldn't benefit anyone I suspect. Also with the new fixed term rules its very unlikely. To be honest I think our best hope of solving this mess is we give the Tory Government the way out they are looking for. I suspect as soon as they are confident staying in the EU won't cost them the next general election, they'll stay. They just have to ride out the next few months of economic pain, then they can say they tried, but its clearly not in the countries interests and we can all get on with getting back to where we were and focus on the other things they are destroying currently.And replace them with what exactly. Jeremy Castro or Farron or best option UKIP. I have posted the question several times when posters have been criticising Theresa May. Who would you replace her with. Probably the best of a very nondescript bunch
Why? We've all got one built in. I regularly ignore threads that I know don't interest me.Please admin can we have an ignore thread function.
Thank you for responding.Daniel
I,ve not answered your question because if you read thread there has been a whole raft of reasons you simply choose to dismiss,ignore or degenerate the folk making them.
For a start there are many economists ( who I,ve listed time and time before) who say we will be stronger economically out of EU. The EU represents a diminishing portion of world trade. In the 70's it was a massive part. That is no longer the case. We want ,need free access to the emerging markets,which within EU we are not entitled.
Many areas of Britain have completely lost their identity, in some cases that's for benefit! But other areas remain completely unaffected. Our immigrant policy, foistered on us is not working. That situation is replicated eu wide, with areas of Germany and France loosing their identities, whilst other areas prosper on the backs of us all.( Luxembourg)
Leavers are not against immigration, they are against such as Junkers having control of it over UK.
The EU is a massive political, economic and social experiment which if you examine massive portions of EU has failed. Merkel's policies have fir some ruined Germany. With or without us the EU is corrupt,( do some homework on Junkers,Greece and Italy) failing and doomed.
Its a matter if time before we,d have to go into euro zone. ( fact, never mind what everyone says on here) and where would our economy be had we joined euro...
Bailouts of Greece,Italy,Portugal,Ireland and Spain can not go on indefinitely. They need the power to devalue currency which in zone they can not, but instead rely on Germany ,France and to a lesser degree us. It has to change. Fact.
Like the Queen asked..give me 3 good reasons for staying ?
There isn't one.
To save me the constant reminders that new posts have arrived. It's lazy but you don't need to use the ignore function.Why? We've all got one built in. I regularly ignore threads that I know don't interest me.
What I don't want to do is censor what others might enjoy.
.
Very good post Danidl, I respect your opinions but don't agree with them all. That's why we had a vote. For example, all eu on one currency,fiscal policy with such disparate economies with no balance procedures ( apart from bail outs) simply can not work. Its exactly why Greece and co have had such problems...only way for it to work is to build a united states of Europe, which would take another 50 years...in mean time what would happen. Sort out Greece and tax situation, Italy and corruption and various other stumbling blocks and in an ideal world it might work...we don't live in an ideal world. Germany,s response at one stage during Greek turmoil was to swap Greek islands for low %age loans..Whilst ever eu is made of independantly governed states, grappling for their own development. ( ie Germany and particularly Luxembourg) it simply can not work. The EU is not united. Its a trading block. No more. You can not draw comparison with USA , even if you do...ok if you happen to be California..different if Alabama..Thank you for responding.
The argument that the EU is less important in terms of world trade Than 40 years ago, is undoubtedly true. In part this is because the EU population has remained static while the population of the rest has near doubled China 40 years ago was only becoming active in the economic world. India , Pakistan were decidedly third world countries with periodically severe famines. But Europe or USA standards of living is what these countries are still aspiring.
As a member of the EU, the UK remains one amongst equals and can could forge trade deals provided they were also of benefit to the other members of the same club. What these economists to which you refer are seeking is to have the UK in competition with the EU. I am not sufficiently versed in economics theory to compare the relevent of their contributions, but are there not also equally authorative economists holding contrary views?
It is your opinion that the EU is a failed experiment, I would hold a contrary view. Were it so would the aspirant countries from the former eastern block have wished to join? The reunification of Germany must rank as one of the major success stories of the latter part of the last century. That it was achieved without war is was an EEC triumph. I am not stating that all the EU is perfect, it's response over the conflicts in Yougoslavia fell well short off acceptable.
The behaviour of the EU central bank in respect of Ireland, was appalling, but discussion on this would take longer than I intend on a post. This central bank was setup without adequate oversight.
Ireland's problem was unfortunately of our own making not the EU. We were a highly successful economy, assisted by the EU, into about 1995, with a feelgood factor Irish people borrowed at low interest rates, money which Germans had invested at low rates of return in their banks. We invested in roads and other infrastructure, but also housing at unsustainable rates, working on the assumption that there would be inward migration. .. When there was a financial crisis, we were in a very vulnerable position. However, with support of the EU, we are still viable , although with a large debt, and improving...
I cannot see how a devaluation would have helped Ireland, it would have increased external debt. Our problem was not an overvalued currency.
My three reasons
Social ... The EU remains embedded in what would viewed as a person centred social democratic society ideal, with human rights and individual freedom high on the agenda. Such activities as the Erasmus programme in the QUB report is only part of it
Free movement of citizens... Not since the time of the Roman empire has their been as free movement in Europe.
Strength through numbers .... A population base of 600 million gives Europe clout in the world.
There are many more reasons.
I can say this without being patronising, condescending or insulting.OG
Its plainly evident I support leaving and yes I said I didn't vote, I also said my name is Zlatan and I live in north pole. All white lies to try and reduce the ** leavers get on here.. Seemed slightly more balanced to claim I,d " sat on fence"
Were you really christened Old Groaner...very perceptive parents..
Besides its totally OT ,which you normally object to, but again ironic since all your BS is ...
Just to point out the obvious....its an anonymous forum...we could all be some kids construct...Should be the opinions we have up for discussion, not the insults you and your buddy offer.
I dont think either of you can post without patronising, condescending or insulting...Unless its a cut and paste..
There's one already its called a "cabinet"for what its worth, we major on "justifying and repeating" on this thread perhaps may should create a ministry for that with brexit
I don't use reminders so aren't bothered in that way.To save me the constant reminders that new posts have arrived. It's lazy but you don't need to use the ignore function.
1. The eurozone is not the EU. As UK and a few others have shown it is feasible to be in the EU while not being in the eurozone. So in the context of the EU that is a red herring.Very good post Danidl, I respect your opinions but don't agree with them all. That's why we had a vote. For example, all eu on one currency,fiscal policy with such disparate economies with no balance procedures ( apart from bail outs) simply can not work. Its exactly why Greece and co have had such problems...only way for it to work is to build a united states of Europe, which would take another 50 years...in mean time what would happen. Sort out Greece and tax situation, Italy and corruption and various other stumbling blocks and in an ideal world it might work...we don't live in an ideal world. Germany,s response at one stage during Greek turmoil was to swap Greek islands for low %age loans..Whilst ever eu is made of independantly governed states, grappling for their own development. ( ie Germany and particularly Luxembourg) it simply can not work. The EU is not united. Its a trading block. No more. You can not draw comparison with USA , even if you do...ok if you happen to be California..different if Alabama..
Remainers ( IMO) are idealists.I,m a pragmatist. UK can and will flourish outside EU. Greece, Spain, Italy and a few others will have big big issues for decades, much of their own doing.
Have a friend who owns bars and a dive business in Koss. Asked him about tax. What tax was his reply. He pays mayor a backhander every 6 months. Italy is worse . Sort all these problems and I,d vote to stay..next time..perhaps.
Governments primary objective should be to protect its own people. We cant drag whole of EU into an ideal place...leave them be..get out whilst we can.
And yes EU has fantastic claims and ideologies but in practice look what is happening...
When its bad remainers blame individual countries, when its good eu is given responsibility.
In reality what has eu really achieved ? Its made Luxembourg 2nd richest country in world...
well I found this useful..
One to show people when they talk about hard and soft Brexit.
The vote was the leave the EU... yes?
Just the EU?
Once again you have resorted to an ad hominem response with absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread.OG
How on earth am I making financial gain with brexit ?? Are you smoking some bad weed or something...you really are quite mad , in both senses of word.
Oh good grief, are you really unable to understand your own posts? every single one attacks the EU and only on the grounds of Money, money money, and who is making it, or how much of yours might be at risk.OG
How on earth am I making financial gain with brexit ?? Are you smoking some bad weed or something...you really are quite mad , in both senses of word.
I dont quite understand how you can argue individual autonomy for countries within EU and for eu to be effective. In my opinion they are mutually exclusive.1. The eurozone is not the EU. As UK and a few others have shown it is feasible to be in the EU while not being in the eurozone. So in the context of the EU that is a red herring.
2. The Greek situation is , according to your post due to local corruption, the EU does not have a police force and is dependent on the national governments playing fair . The courts of auditors of the EU will investigate findings after the event and can only prevent additional funds being wasted.
3 Every state has poorer and richer regions, whether it is at the level of streets, districts, canton's , counties, . Federal regions etc. This is true either within or without the EU. So why make this a case either for or against?
4 neither Germany or Luxembourg are the EU. The policies that individual countries may advocate are simply that . The EU works on agreement by all or now on a qualified majority basis, . If UK remains a member it can participate, if or when it leaves it cannot. The countries within the EU agree on specific policies and then carry them out in unison. They trade individual autonomy for collective action. If a country renegades on an agreement they made, they then are answerable to the EU courts.
5. The principle of accepting credit and attributing blame elsewhere is not unique to remainers or brexiteers , it is common to all political parties and institutions.so in what way does this advance the arguments for leaving the EU.?