Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
You are aware that you are implicating yourself with that statement?
Due to a monoculture of mutual narrow minded bigotry (well remembered in the 1940s and '50s)
The ability for industry in isolation to fail without unfavourable comparisons with EU partner countries.
Yes, 33.33 and 66.66% purchase taxes instead of 20% VAT
Due to higher death rates and swing to emigration to escape the steeply declining UK we previously experienced when on our own.
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Whilst all this arguing is going on over Brexit a catastrophe in euro banking is probably unfolding with almost no comment. If it happens it will make Lehmans and Brexit look like small inconveniences...
Before all you remainers jump and say nonesense...Take these figures into account..
In 2007 a Deutsche bank share was valued at 100euro. A year ago it had climbed back to 30 euro, after the 2008 crash...
Under no unusual circumstances a share has settled at a value of 10 euro !! The bank has raised a slush fund of 130 billion euro.one to fend off aggresive moves from companies to take them.over and to pay out any faulting toxic loans...of which it has most worldwide. ( in volume) Italy has biggest %age toxic loans.. It seems eu banks learned nothing post 2008...
Before all you remainers jump and say nonesense...Take these figures into account..
In 2007 a Deutsche bank share was valued at 100euro. A year ago it had climbed back to 30 euro, after the 2008 crash...
Under no unusual circumstances a share has settled at a value of 10 euro !! The bank has raised a slush fund of 130 billion euro.one to fend off aggresive moves from companies to take them.over and to pay out any faulting toxic loans...of which it has most worldwide. ( in volume) Italy has biggest %age toxic loans.. It seems eu banks learned nothing post 2008...
that's completely wrong.
There have been huge changes in banking,worldwide, not just EU banks.
I can write a volume on this but trust me, they are changing.
Err, no I wasn't jesting OG. I read 'Woosh's' response in answer to a question from 'Danidl' with incredulity, finding it difficult to reconcile with other material he has contributed to the thread.
This was the question from 'Danidl':
When 'Woosh' stated:
'Danidl' politely replied:
Your own response to 'Woosh' in post #9118 and that of 'flecc' in post #9125 clearly reinforce my view of the 'Woosh' statement which caused me to express worry. Given his views elsewhere though, I can forgive that if the author is not old enough to remember how things were in the decades post WW2 before we were granted admission into the 'Common Market' as was.
Tom
Harmonization is one of the mechanisms to run the single market. However, it has unintended consequences. The main issue is the rigid fork that member countries must stick to. Look at the last problem at Port Talbot steel mill. As a member, the UK wants no ADT on Chinese steel but can't help Tata because of state aid rule. I know I simplify the issue but you get the drift.
I did not vote for brexit but I respect the result and wish for the best outcome, that is one step short of FOM and one step short of the single market. A customs Union + a negotiated deal for our fintech is my preferred brexit.
The real problem for our country is the tory government. Brexit or not, they are bad news.
I did not vote for brexit but I respect the result and wish for the best outcome, that is one step short of FOM and one step short of the single market. A customs Union + a negotiated deal for our fintech is my preferred brexit.
The real problem for our country is the tory government. Brexit or not, they are bad news.
Will you never get the point? you must be exceptionally obtuse to keep harping on about something that has nothing whatever to do with us anymore, and frankly no one gives a tinkers cuss about.
Why not try posting on topic for just once?
Of course there is no comment for the following reasons
- It is of little interest compared to the much bigger problems we face
- The fact that you keep harping on about it for no good reason makes the matter utterly boring.
- You have failed every single time to post anything other than the ideas borrowed from a bunch of financial sharks, and so far there is no reason to think you have broken your "duck" this time.
"Brexit for once some facts" not
"The ill informed, financial speculations of a Would be Wolf of Wall Street"
Whoa there, it was the Conservative Government that opposed imposing ADT on Chinese Steel not the EU.
They should never have sold the steel industry to Tata in the first place, who really only bought it to ensure it wasnt modernised to complete with their Indian production facilities.
Quite the opposite of your statement
These are the EU rules on state aid
http://ec.europa.eu/competition/consumers/government_aid_en.html
And this is how the Government intended to get around them
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-outlines-details-of-financial-support-for-tata-steel-uk-buyers
And of course after a bit when the dust has settled, sell it back?
Certainly no arguments with this, in or out of the EU, they are a formula for failure.
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You misread OG, I did say that as a member state, the UK does not want to impose ADT on Chinese steel.
Steel price was/is a temporary problem. The EU has too rigid market rules, constraining the range of options available to local governments. Over time, these market rules (eg in fisheries) will of course be refined.. Outside the EU, we can work with the EU, sharing the same objectives and rules whilst retaining greater flexibility including re-nationalization. .
'Woosh', I'm afraid you seem to have missed the point of the EU, indeed anyone who promotes any kind of 'Brexit' is really lacking in understanding of how this great, though flawed, institution works.
Some people have wrongly disparaged the EU as a failed experiment but they simply don't recognise and credit the founders for all the good that has been and continues to be achieved thanks to shared mutual co-operation between countries previously at war all too frequently.
There is a vision for the future and a safety in numbers that the UK can benefit from inside the EU but we need to pull our weight and stop continually harping on about all the faults some complain about in the EU. If we want to discover fault; for example, the fault that caused the UK to be bereft of heavy industry, without any British-owned, mass car-making capacity or major shipbuilding, we need look no further than the tory and tory-lite governments that have ruled for an unbroken 37 years since 1979.
Only a socialist government can bring about the kind of change this country needs, as happened after WW2.
All the time we are members of the EU, we are able to block bad legislation as other countries can too. We have the right and are therefore entitled to discuss change in the way the EU operates and we may or may not receive backing from other sovereign states, depending on what form such change may take and in whose interests it would be. To listen to some critics, one might imagine that the other 27 sovereign nation states all have it in for Britain and because we are much smarter than they are, we need to be in charge and lead the way.
God forbid because if the UK ran Europe the way the UK has been run for the last 37 years, the whole shebang would have collapsed years ago, bankrupt and reliant upon handouts from elsewhere.
As for my selected piece of yours in quotes, if you were to switch the word, 'outside' to 'inside', I would suggest that to be more sensible and appropriate. Blaming the EU for the disgraceful state of the UK after 37 years of capitalist government is what happens when a nation's people have been so brainwashed and conditioned over decades by the ruling class and their media.
Full membership and participation of the EU is where the UK needs to be in the 21st century.
Tom
D
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Jeez! I last looked at this thread about 3 months ago, when the same people were saying exactly the same thing. How many times have all those comments been repeated during seven months and 9000 posts?
Is there any chance that someone will win the argument?
Before we joined the ECC, Uk worked more or less OK. After we joined the ECC, UK still worked mostly OK. When we leave, UK will still be more or less OK. When we make another alliance, we'll still be more or less OK. What is there to argue about? Can you change anything?
Is there any chance that someone will win the argument?
Before we joined the ECC, Uk worked more or less OK. After we joined the ECC, UK still worked mostly OK. When we leave, UK will still be more or less OK. When we make another alliance, we'll still be more or less OK. What is there to argue about? Can you change anything?
That's the bit I'd dispute. Between the end of WW2 and the late 1970s, we lost all of our industries, bicycle, motorcycle, car, bus and truck, ship building, with our remaining aircraft companies on their way to failure. Having demolished industry, we then started to lose commerce, for example our once worldwide shipping with British Crews under the British flag.
That was failure on a grand scale.
Once established into the EU we halted the decline and in some areas eventually returned to some growth.
A problem in this thread is that some are unaware of this history, apparently thinking Britain was "Great" before we joined the EU.
The last time Britain was great in stature was when it was benefitting from Empire and the remnants of slavery.
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Flecc,
Don't forget the part that the Unions played in destroying Britain.