Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I might even consider moving to Scotland in my own self interest if they do. What they shouldn't be able to do is block England leaving the EU.
Fully agree, they have no moral right to interfere with the decision the whole UK made. The result stands.

But I maintain they don't have to respect what they thought wrong and are entitled to act accordingly, even if it means a drastic change in status.
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trex

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I think one positive to come out of this will be that the EU will have to have a close look at itself and acknowledge that their is a lot of discontent and not only in the UK . They are going to have to make some serious reforms and it's leaders become much more accountable. At the moment they are seen by a large amount of people as just a remote dictatorship.
Judging by what has been going on since the result was known, I fear there is no positive outcome for anyone but a few people who have campaigned for years to get the UK out of the EU and even to break up the EU.
 
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oldgroaner

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My comments aren't bitter, i'm not complaining about the result like you are. Its plainly obvious to everyone on here that you see nothing but doom & gloom for the future. You may even be right, but its just your opinion, an assumption, not fact.
Whatever happens in the future its not written yet..... anything can happen.... things may work out for the better, they may not. Nothing bitter in that.
How can I help what I see? remember I am an old fogey who remembers being brought up in the ruins left by war, and has experience of poverty and exploitation at the hands of unscrupulous employers, and my concern is for the young, and I'm not able to perceive cause for anything encouraging, especially when we are at the mercy of politicians from both parties who are not intent in working for the benefit of the public, they serve other masters.
Do you think they will institute a more humanitarian agenda that we got from the EU?
They are busily writing the way they want the future to go, and what cause have we to trust either camp?
When Corbyn gets thrown out we get the old Conservative "B" team back, don't we.
The only legislation that has benefited the people for a Generation has originated in the EU and been grudgingly agreed by our parliament.
Now that's over.
Come on tell me something I can see as encouraging, i will be grateful if you can, and "anything can happen" is too double edged to serve, it isn't going to cut the mustard is it?
I have been where we are going before, and you don't want to go there.
 
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flecc

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So the way out of that, long term, would be to aim for a global single currency? And a good start would have been to join the Euro...
Yes, I was in favour of us joining it in the first place. With the added strength of the pound it would not have suffered much of the trouble it has. From the inception of the euro the currency traders have deliberately acted to destroy it by undermining with concerted actions. They hate the merging of currencies since it reduces their opportunities to play one against another for profit, and the multi-country scale of euro acceptance was their worst nightmare in that respect.

If the UK and Sweden had joined the euro long ago, the traders would have seen the combined euro strength in the world was beyond reversal and stopped their deliberate sabotage.
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oldgroaner

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Judging by what has been going on since the result was known, I fear there is no positive outcome for anyone but a few people who have campaigned for years to get the UK out of the EU and even to break up the EU.
Hush now, you are not supposed to know things like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Express

This "Free press" paper funds UKIP doesn't it? ever wondered why? what are the motives of it's owner?
Especially look at the articles that are generous regarding Putin and his policies
 
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oldgroaner

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No problem with that, I might even consider moving to Scotland in my own self interest if they do. What they shouldn't be able to do is block England leaving the EU.

I think we have to respect the result, even if we believe it to be wrong. Democracy has no value and democratic government no moral authority otherwise. Unless, of course, we believe the referendum was flawed in such a way that it doesn't truly represent the will of the people...

It would be great if this country could become like Norway, but that would take a lot more than a similar relationship with the EU.
I'm convinced that out of necessity that's what will happen.
It will be interesting to see how the press puts a spin on that to make it out to be a victory!
 

trex

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Yes, I was in favour of us joining it in the first place. With the added strength of the pound it would not have suffered much of the trouble it has. From the inception of the euro the currency traders have deliberately acted to destroy it by undermining with concerted actions. They hate the merging of currencies since it reduces their opportunities to play one against another for profit, and the multi-country scale of euro acceptance was their worst nightmare in that respect.

If the UK and Sweden had joined the euro long ago, the traders would have seen the combined euro strength in the world was beyond reversal and stopped their deliberate sabotage.
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I would like the Euro to succeed but I can't see it succeeding with the membership that it currently has. The role of the central banks is to maintain currencies reserve, interest rate and liquidity to suit the economy. If members' economies are divergent, like German and Spanish, one size does not fit all.
 
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Yamdude

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Sep 20, 2013
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Have you seen the voter turnout figures for young people? It's shocking and it's disgraceful. Total lack of effort and will.

I know it's currently in vogue to blame others for anything that goes wrong. Everything is always someone else's fault and no one needs to take on responsibility for anything. Well reality has just struck home. They had a chance and they blew it, couldn't be @rsed to vote. Their vote could and would have made a difference. I think it would have been the wrong outcome, but it could have been theirs for the taking.

Never mind, perhaps Simon Cowell will discover them and whisk them away into the synthetic and plasticy world of celebrity. That's all many seem interested in. Maybe this will give them the kick up the jacksey they so badly need.
Many times i've spoken to young people about their apathy in voting.....
They simply dont comprehend that you cannot complain about the way things are if you dont vote to try to change it. Neither can i seem to make them see what a huge privilege it is and how lucky we are to live in a democratic society. Something that millions of people all over the world have fought & died to have.
Usually their eyes have started glazing over by now with boredom.

Of course not all young people are like this..... but it does seem a hell of a lot of them are.

Maybe this referendum will make them more politically aware..... and that would be a good thing that's come out of Brexit.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
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Many times i've spoken to young people about their apathy in voting.....
They simply dont comprehend that you cannot complain about the way things are if you dont vote to try to change it. Neither can i seem to make them see what a huge privilege it is and how lucky we are to live in a democratic society. Something that millions of people all over the world have fought & died to have.
Usually their eyes have started glazing over by now with boredom.

Of course not all young people are like this..... but it does seem a hell of a lot of them are.

Maybe this referendum will make them more politically aware..... and that would be a good thing that's come out of Brexit.
And for that new awareness at least I will be grateful
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
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Many times i've spoken to young people about their apathy in voting.....
They simply dont comprehend that you cannot complain about the way things are if you dont vote to try to change it. Neither can i seem to make them see what a huge privilege it is and how lucky we are to live in a democratic society. Something that millions of people all over the world have fought & died to have.
Usually their eyes have started glazing over by now with boredom.

Of course not all young people are like this..... but it does seem a hell of a lot of them are.

Maybe this referendum will make them more politically aware..... and that would be a good thing that's come out of Brexit.
I think participation of the under 30 was high in the referendum. The difference this time is the young who live in council estates, do not go to university, normally would not want to vote, have gone out to vote for Brexit to ask for change.
 

Yamdude

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Sep 20, 2013
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I think participation of the under 30 was high in the referendum. The difference this time is the young who live in council estates, do not go to university, normally would not want to vote, have gone out to vote for Brexit to ask for change.
I'd like to see some truthful figures on this...... But we all know that statistics can be made to say whatever someone wants them to say.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I would like the Euro to succeed but I can't see it succeeding with the membership that it currently has. The role of the central banks is to maintain currencies reserve, interest rate and liquidity to suit the economy. If members' economies are divergent, like German and Spanish, one size does not fit all.
True, but I don't think the problem with 3 or even 4 countries should dictate to the rest. Either there should be stronger EU control over the running of their economies when necessary, rather like when the IMF ran ours in the 1970s, or the EU should be prepared to have a two level euro.

I think the first option better, and if we'd joined the euro we could have negotiated better control in return for joining.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I think we were kept out for 10 years by De Gaulle for whatever reason.
de Gaulle was a very wise statesman with long experience of dealing with us, so no doubt knew enough about the British nature to foresee the problems we'd cause the EU.
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Croxden

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Jan 26, 2013
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de Gaulle was a very wise statesman with long experience of dealing with us, so no doubt knew enough about the British nature to foresee the problems we'd cause the EU.
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Nothing to do with way Ted Heath spoke French then?
 
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Mar 9, 2016
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OG
I didn't lie whereas by your own admission did, ie discounting a report you hadn't even seen.
Since you are so good at predicting future could you let us know who will win Euros and perhaps let us know next weeks lottery numbers.

Why on earth did anybody bother researching anything about brexit when we had OG in here...
 

trex

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I think we were kept out for 10 years by De Gaulle for whatever reason. Maybe if we had been let in earlier we may have been more committed and involved
I doubt it. The Brits always think of themselves as a bit special and insist on special treatment. The only time where we come near being a fully committed member is under the Blair government.
The current crisis is mostly of our own making. Successive British governments have pushed for enlargement of the EU. EU migration is the direct consequence.
 
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tillson

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May 29, 2008
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I think participation of the under 30 was high in the referendum. The difference this time is the young who live in council estates, do not go to university, normally would not want to vote, have gone out to vote for Brexit to ask for change.
18 - 24 yr olds 36% turnout.
25 - 30 yr olds 58% turnout.

It then jumps into the high 70% and even low 80% for the other older age groups.

Not a high participation at all from under 30s. Shocking.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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OG
I didn't lie whereas by your own admission did, ie discounting a report you hadn't even seen.
Since you are so good at predicting future could you let us know who will win Euros and perhaps let us know next weeks lottery numbers.

Why on earth did anybody bother researching anything about brexit when we had OG in here...
Hi Flud, but you did lie, didn't you? come off it you said i had made a statement that I didn't, what do you call that?
Lets face it when I saw the subscription page for the report your "cunning plot" was a shade obvious and I'm sorry I couldn't resist playing along.
I really must resist the urge to indulge
Sorry but the only bit of the future I can predict is that no matter what I say you will disagree (mind you I am basing that on your perfect score so far.)
I'm sure that under that layer of hostility you're really quite a nice guy, even if a little on the grumpy side, how about calling a truce?
 

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