Brexit, for once some facts.

[derf]

What you talking about and who's garage!!!

Think the mood in the country is changing, with more of this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36636853
And there will be much more, sooner rather than later, there will be much more jitters in the brexit camp. It reminds me of Zuma in south Africa replacing a finance minister there regardless of public opinion due to his political majority rule. When the markets devalued therand by 15% he rapidly backtracked.

 

[soundwave]

Osborne statement seeks to calm fears

 

[soundwave]

 

[anotherkiwi]

I think we were kept out for 10 years by De Gaulle for whatever reason. Maybe if we had been let in earlier we may have been more committed and involved

Because he could see the future. Looks like he was right. He knew that your American masters would never want the pound to join the Euro...

 

[oldgroaner]

Lets recap on the plot so far Correct me where I have it wrong...

• For years the EU has been used as an excuse for Government failure
• Certain newspapers (one funds UKIP) have lied about the powers of the EU and made out it outvoted us all the time when 2% was the true figure. Even the Telegraph has a changed mood
• For some reason Putin has become the Darling of the Daily Express and can do no wrong.
• Both parties were perceived to be lying when they supported remain, Cameron because he has blamed the EU for everything except the weather, Corbyn as he has always been Eurosceptic
• The out vote wins with a small majority (I predicted it would win with a bigger one so I got that wrong.)
• There are immediate and large losses on the Stock market as expected, but after the usual swindling runs its course a recovery of sorts
• The pound drops to the lowest level since 1986 and now? well who knows it depends what is revealed over the next days, weeks and months.
• There is a Petition which calls for a second referendum, which is torpedoed by someone or some faction with false votes.(why?)
• The Scots say to hell with England we are staying in
• The out vote has now definite proof that for many of them they have been conned with untruths about the things they thought they were voting for from the mouths of the politicians leading their cause
• Suddenly for some unknown reason the Daily Mail regurgitates the true situation regarding the consequences of Brexit and the readers react with comments I never expected to see in a right wing paper.
• Corbyn faces a mass uprising of the pro Tory faction in the Labour party (impeccably timed)and sacks the chief one, and the rest leave what appears to be a sinking ship.
• Parliament appears to have second thoughts about who actually runs the country and of course Boris has said previously as Tillson correctly pointed out, that he thought it would be a good idea to get an out vote to negotiate better terms with the EU, so his motives are questionable.In the Telegraph this morning he announces "I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe and always will be." so why was he the leader of the Leave camp??
• We no longer have any idea of how many MP's can be trusted to enforce the will of the people rather than their own agenda.
• We no longer even know what level of support Brexit now has.
• This morning in the Guardian "EU may refuse informal Brexit talks until UK triggers article 50" which rather urinates on Boris's blackmail ploy doesn't it?
• Both parties follow the line in public that the "will of the people must be respected (even though we're not sure what that actually means.after the lies that secured the result were revealed)
• The EU says it wont negotiate until we trigger article 50 so there is no point whatever looking to change anything with a general election is there?
• Effectively in less than a week we have lost the EU, and both Government and opposition. we are freewheeling with no brakes or steering.

Have I missed anything? that's highly probable is the situation is changing so rapidly.
This has become a "Midsummer Nights Nightmare"
Someone please reassure me I have got it all wrong and there is a plan that will restore sanity to the situation.
It's like reading a novel and knowing there is a hell of a plot running in the background, but what it is, driven by whom, and why?

 

[oldgroaner]

Very funny, but the Brexit cause s not looking so good now is it?
Reality is driving it onto the rocks

 

[oldgroaner]

Because he could see the future. Looks like he was right. He knew that your American masters would never want the pound to join the Euro...

Except of course there was no Euro back then was there?

 

[anotherkiwi]

Common currency was always the plan it only took until 1999 to get it done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_euro

 

[oldgroaner]

Found this but have now reached a sort of punch drunk state where all seems like bad fiction.
http://www.pwc.co.uk/economic-services/assets/leaving-the-eu-implications-for-the-uk-economy.pdf
Flud my friend would you please give it a look and see what you make of it.?

 

[oldgroaner]

Common currency was always the plan it only took until 1999 to get it done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_euro

Thanks for the info.

 

[derf]

Lets recap on the plot so far Correct me where I have it wrong...

• For years the EU has been used as an excuse for Government failure
• Certain newspapers (one funds UKIP) have lied about the powers of the EU and made out it outvoted us all the time when 2% was the true figure. Even the Telegraph has a changed mood
• For some reason Putin has become the Darling of the Daily Express and can do no wrong.
• Both parties were perceived to be lying when they supported remain, Cameron because he has blamed the EU for everything except the weather, Corbyn as he has always been Eurosceptic
• The out vote wins with a small majority (I predicted it would win with a bigger one so I got that wrong.)
• There are immediate and large losses on the Stock market as expected, but after the usual swindling runs its course a recovery of sorts
• The pound drops to the lowest level since 1986 and now? well who knows it depends what is revealed over the next days, weeks and months.
• There is a Petition which calls for a second referendum, which is torpedoed by someone or some faction with false votes.(why?)
• The Scots say to hell with England we are staying in
• The out vote has now definite proof that for many of them they have been conned with untruths about the things they thought they were voting for from the mouths of the politicians leading their cause
• Suddenly for some unknown reason the Daily Mail regurgitates the true situation regarding the consequences of Brexit and the readers react with comments I never expected to see in a right wing paper.
• Corbyn faces a mass uprising of the pro Tory faction in the Labour party (impeccably timed)and sacks the chief one
• Parliament appears to have second thoughts about who actually runs the country and of course Boris has said previously as Tillson correctly pointed out, that he thought it would be a good idea to get an out vote to negotiate better terms with the EU, so his motives are questionable.In the Telegraph this morning he announces "I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe and always will be." so why was he the leader of the Leave camp??
• We no longer have any idea of how many MP's can be trusted to enforce the will of the people rather than their own agenda.
• We no longer even know what level of support Brexit now has.
• This morning in the Guardian "EU may refuse informal Brexit talks until UK triggers article 50" which rather urinates on Boris's blackmail ploy doesn't it?

Have I missed anything? that's highly probable is the situation is changing so rapidly.
This has become a "Midsummer Nights Nightmare"
Someone please reassure me I have got it all wrong and there is a plan that will restore sanity to the situation.
It's like reading a novel and knowing there is a hell of a plot running in the background, but by whom, and why?

perhaps as the economic indicators sink in the uk will experience a similar transformation to this thread - with more extreme views dissipating and a healthy dose of economic realism dominating.

 

[oldgroaner]

perhaps as the economic indicators sink in the uk will experience a similar transformation to this thread - with more extreme views dissipating and a healthy dose of economic realism dominating.

Let us all hope for that.

 

[oldgroaner]

perhaps as the economic indicators sink in the uk will experience a similar transformation to this thread - with more extreme views dissipating and a healthy dose of economic realism dominating.

Our situation is, as far as I can see one of having no power over events, other than choosing whether to laugh or cry.
Being as so many have pointed out "an old fool" the choice for me personally is the former though the laughter will be shrill, hysterical and sad.
They do say those the Gods want to kill, they first make mad.

 

[derf]

Our situation is, as far as I can see one of having no power over events, other than choosing whether to laugh or cry.
Being as so many have pointed out "an old fool" the choice for me personally is the former though the laughter will be shrill, hysterical and sad.
They do say those the Gods want to kill, they first make mad.

yes, well i would to be frank classify myself as "a younger fool". this doesnt help, at all: but ive resolved to simply pick up the pieces and start again. Ive kissed goodbye half of what ive built up financially over the past ten years in the UK (the first rule of investment is to never panic sell, and two years form now i believe everything will be halved in value). However, we europeans (for now, although i have an interview in Lille friday) all have much more than we need, and life is good, and besides early retirement isnt good for one's soul, one needs to work and engage with the world, so everything is just fine, fine! (as i keep on telling myself)

 

[gray198]

I think a lot of the turmoil could have been mitigated if Cameron had taken a different path. By that I mean that at the outset he should have stated his beliefs about the benefits of staying in the EU , and then stepped back and let the remain camp take over. In that way he wouldn't have needed to resign when it went the other way. That would have taken some of the heat out of the situation. After all it was easy to see what would happen. We are where we are and have to live with it, and I thought the speech given by Osbourne this morning was positive and overdue. Should have been on Friday. Will be interesting to see what happens to the markets today. In the meantime the Labour party continues to implode. That is not good for our democracy and I hope can be sorted quickly

 

[gray198]

yes, well i would to be frank classify myself as "a younger fool". this doesnt help, at all: but ive resolved to simply pick up the pieces and start again. Ive kissed goodbye half of what ive built up financially over the past ten years in the UK (the first rule of investment is to never panic sell, and two years form now i believe everything will be halved in value). However, we europeans (for now, although i have an interview in Lille friday) all have much more than we need, and life is good, and besides early retirement isnt good for one's soul, one needs to work and engage with the world, so everything is just fine, fine! (as i keep on telling myself)

Derf I'm sure that you will be fine

 

[derf]

Derf I'm sure that you will be fine

many thanks

 

[Ruadh495]

I'm convinced that out of necessity that's what will happen.
It will be interesting to see how the press puts a spin on that to make it out to be a victory!

What the British deserve is some politicians with the courage to what is necessary to generate some wealth and stop wasting our money on vanity projects. They should get on with fracking for a start, cut the foreign aid budget stop hs2, stop covering the country in useless windmills. There is plenty of potential. They should stop being led by minority pressure groups and do what is necessary even if it is not to everyone's taste

Can I mark this both "agree" and "disagree"? Agree on the need for politicians with courage and maybe even principles. Disagree on what they should be doing.

Now there's the problem...

 

[trex]

I think a lot of the turmoil could have been mitigated if Cameron had taken a different path. By that I mean that at the outset he should have stated his beliefs about the benefits of staying in the EU , and then stepped back and let the remain camp take over. In that way he wouldn't have needed to resign when it went the other way. That would have taken some of the heat out of the situation. After all it was easy to see what would happen. We are where we are and have to live with it, and I thought the speech given by Osbourne this morning was positive and overdue. Should have been on Friday. Will be interesting to see what happens to the markets today. In the meantime the Labour party continues to implode. That is not good for our democracy and I hope can be sorted quickly

Cameron did not have much choice. The country was moving slowly but steadily toward Brexit in the last few years because of austerity. Politicians on the left kept telling the electorate that austerity is not necessary, making ukip's rhetoric more plausible as the recession hit the poorer in the country harder and harder.
Cameron was a eurosceptic in the early years as a party leader but since he became PM, he has become less eurosceptic. It's no surprise that he chose to fight for this country to remain. His going now brings the whole country to realize that Johnson and Gove have caused this country a great harm. Our influence in the world has diminished a great deal, so has our wealth.
We have just to sit it out.
A second referendum is now necessary, maybe in a year or two.

 

[trex]

We are currently 11% poorer in comparision to before the referendum.