Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

i

we will become an unexciting Albania, European adolescents will come as adventure tourists to do charity work and research on evolutionary dead-ends

I can see us ending up like Switzerland....I used to think that everyone in Switzerland is mega-wealthy. But my last trip there I had a walk about near Geneva rail station,there were some neighborhoods that are very poor,almost ghetto like,they have their own local economy,with some very poor looking tatty supermarkets.
This contrasted with the very wealthy Lake Geneva waterfront.
This is the absolute opposite of what poor UK people thought was going to happen when they ticked Leave...but maybe the Redwood and Rees-Moggs could see that Brexit would make them more powerful and they could craft the UK to suit their own ends.
If we do end up like Switzerland its not going to be a balanced society.
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

what ARE you smoking? the bigoted morons who voted brexit would never accept a reduced fee/participate in single market deal. even if they did the EU wouldn't. what you describe is essentially us begging the EU for scraps. that may be a negotiating strategy, but definitely not a good one.

Seems to me its a few remainers with all the prejudice and inflammatory comments..
Read your comment and think on if it had been directed at you.
In my experience its those that see racism in themselves that shout it loudest at others.
Yes, some probably voted for Brexit on racist grounds...many didn't. Stop hurling the insults steb . Its not called for.
Assuming you know why folk vote as they did is a massive mistake, leave it for politicians and opinion polls to make.

 

[oldgroaner]

Seems to me its a few remainers with all the prejudice and inflammatory comments..
Read your comment and think on if it had been directed at you.
In my experience its those that see racism in themselves that shout it loudest at others.
Yes, some probably voted for Brexit on racist grounds...many didn't. Stop hurling the insults steb . Its not called for.
Assuming you know why folk vote as they did is a massive mistake, leave it for politicians and opinion polls to make.

perhaps here is someone who actually does have some idea why the vote went the way it did
"
Dominic Cummings, campaign director for Vote Leave admitted that the majority of people would not have voted for Brexit had it not been for the false NHS claim.

He said in January:

For millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards — that’s why it was so effective. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests no."

Do you know, that sounds like something I said all along
The people were lied to and misled into voting for Brexit,

Nice to have it confirmed from the mouth of one of the Chief Culprits for this disaster we are facing.

Unfortunately there seems to be no way to alter the situation, despite it having been brought about by lies.

 

[oldgroaner]

Seems to me its a few remainers with all the prejudice and inflammatory comments..

I could easily post several thousand leave voter comments that make your statement look shall we say less than "Strong and stable"
Shall I do that? I thought we had closed that particular Pandora's box firmly shut.
Just because the leave hotheads are thin on the ground round here is not proof of their non existence elsewhere.
It's simply a case that this forum is not a place for those who cannot argue convincingly using "facts" or even reasoned hypotheses, whatever that may mean.
Which is a pity, as I still hope to see a convincing argument in favour of Brexit before I die of old age.

 

[Zlatan]

perhaps here is someone who actually does have some idea why the vote went the way it did
"
Dominic Cummings, campaign director for Vote Leave admitted that the majority of people would not have voted for Brexit had it not been for the false NHS claim.

He said in January:

For millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards — that’s why it was so effective. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests no."

Do you know, that sounds like something I said all along
The people were lied to and misled into voting for Brexit,

Nice to have it confirmed from the mouth of one of the Chief Culprits for this disaster we are facing.

Unfortunately there seems to be no way to alter the situation, despite it having been brought about by lies.

OG
When folk walk in that polling booth nobody but nobody knows what's going on in peoples minds . At best its speculation and at worst inflamatory and divisive.

 

[Zlatan]

I could easily post several thousand leave voter comments that make your statement look shall we say less than "Strong and stable"
Shall I do that? I thought we had closed that particular Pandora's box firmly shut.
Just because the leave hotheads are thin on the ground round here is not proof of their non existence elsewhere.

Obviously you could and I,d be pointing out their hypocrisy if they posted on here, but they don't.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG
When folk walk in that polling booth nobody but nobody knows what's going on in peoples minds . At best its speculation and at worst inflamatory and divisive.

I Don't disagree, but the statements were in the past tense were they not? and so was my assessment .
Interesting that you missed that part, I'm surprised you did.

 

[Zlatan]

I can see us ending up like Switzerland....I used to think that everyone in Switzerland is mega-wealthy. But my last trip there I had a walk about near Geneva rail station,there were some neighborhoods that are very poor,almost ghetto like,they have their own local economy,with some very poor looking tatty supermarkets.
This contrasted with the very wealthy Lake Geneva waterfront.
This is the absolute opposite of what poor UK people thought was going to happen when they ticked Leave...but maybe the Redwood and Rees-Moggs could see that Brexit would make them more powerful and they could craft the UK to suit their own ends.
If we do end up like Switzerland its not going to be a balanced society.
KudosDave

Like we have now ?

 

[oldgroaner]

Obviously you could and I,d be pointing out their hypocrisy if they posted on here, but they don't.

I think my post covered that aspect don't you? You should take my remarks as a personal compliment on your tenacity.

 

[oldgroaner]

Like we have now ?

Absolutely, and alas there is no remedy for that in sight.

 

[Danidl]

Seems to me its a few remainers with all the prejudice and inflammatory comments..
Read your comment and think on if it had been directed at you.
In my experience its those that see racism in themselves that shout it loudest at others.
Yes, some probably voted for Brexit on racist grounds...many didn't. Stop hurling the insults steb . Its not called for.
Assuming you know why folk vote as they did is a massive mistake, leave it for politicians and opinion polls to make.

.. we have been over this ground many times before, so little value in rehashing it. In a future, I suspect that historians will be more interested in why the two institutions entrusted with protecting the wealth and security of your nation abrogated their responsibility. I refer to your two houses of parliament.

 

[oldgroaner]

.. we have been over this ground many times before, so little value in rehashing it. In a future, I suspect that historians will be more interested in why the two institutions entrusted with protecting the wealth and security of your nation abrogated their responsibility. I refer to your two houses of parliament.

My theory is that some external state (no name, no pack drill) with Malice aforethought dropped an advanced WMS missile aboard a stealth orbital glide weapon that exploded silently over the House of commons on one of the admittedly very rare occasions when a large number of the MPs and Lords were present.
We could get a precise date for this by simply checking the Bar Takings and Expenses claimed to find the right date.

 

[Zlatan]

.. we have been over this ground many times before, so little value in rehashing it. In a future, I suspect that historians will be more interested in why the two institutions entrusted with protecting the wealth and security of your nation abrogated their responsibility. I refer to your two houses of parliament.

Totally agree.

 

[Wicky]

Seems to me its a few remainers with all the prejudice and inflammatory comments..
Read your comment and think on if it had been directed at you.
In my experience its those that see racism in themselves that shout it loudest at others.
Yes, some probably voted for Brexit on racist grounds...many didn't. Stop hurling the insults steb . Its not called for.
Assuming you know why folk vote as they did is a massive mistake, leave it for politicians and opinion polls to make.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Express this morning
"
Outrage as minister claims Britain could pay EU £10bn divorce bill as 'GOODWILL gesture'
A SENIOR minister has revealed that the Government is considering a divorce bill of around £10 billion as “a goodwill gesture” to the EU."

Outrage from Tory leavers, contempt from the EU? this is going nowhere, is it?

 

[oldgroaner]

If you're going to tell a lie it may was well be a big one
"
Britain is paying the European Union less than half the sum claimed by Brexit campaigners, new official figures have revealed.

The UK’s net contribution has fallen to its lowest level for five years, at just £8.1bn in 2016-17 – or about £156m a week.

The sum is under half the £350m-a-week claimed by Brexiteers during the EU referendum campaign, which they promised to divert to the cash-strapped NHS.

No surprise, is it?

 

[anotherkiwi]

So you don't want to pay and you want a deal, that is going to go down well with us lot who pay 100% of our contribution isn't it?

 

[Woosh]

So you don't want to pay and you want a deal, that is going to go down well with us lot who pay 100% of our contribution isn't it?

you don't have to listen to the idiots.

 

[Steb]

Seems to me its a few remainers with all the prejudice and inflammatory comments..
Read your comment and think on if it had been directed at you.
In my experience its those that see racism in themselves that shout it loudest at others.
Yes, some probably voted for Brexit on racist grounds...many didn't. Stop hurling the insults steb . Its not called for.
Assuming you know why folk vote as they did is a massive mistake, leave it for politicians and opinion polls to make.

tell you what - you provide a reasonable basis for voting brexit and I will retract my post. with reasonable I mean not based on fake news about immigration or the kind or manure boris spouted.
until you do I'm afraid I and the rest of the world will have to conclude that brexit was about "immigration"(in the fake sense where that's really closet racism) and uninformed political "naivety" (some might say stupidity).
I'm afraid no one is going to shield leave voters from the truth about their decision, and my post is simply stating the truth.

 

[Zlatan]

tell you what - you provide a reasonable basis for voting brexit and I will retract my post. with reasonable I mean not based on fake news about immigration or the kind or manure boris spouted.
until you do I'm afraid I and the rest of the world will have to conclude that brexit was about "immigration"(in the fake sense where that's really closet racism) and uninformed political "naivety" (some might say stupidity).
I'm afraid no one is going to shield leave voters from the truth about their decision, and my post is simply stating the truth.

You obviously haven't read any of Peter Hargreaves reports...read them and then tell me he,s a racist.
Trouble is its the remain faction that bought into both the economic scare stories portrayed by Osborne and the racist card played by remain in general.
Its reckoned 75% of my Towns Asian community voted to leave ? Suppose they are racist too ??
Many voters believed ( and still do) that there are long term economic opportunities, perhaps misplaced but not on racist grounds as you insist.
Nobody should have to explain why the voted as they did in fear of being called a racist, which has happened on here by posters I see as misinformed and ignorant in nature. But not for the first time I will explain my reasoning.
Having run a business in North Spain/ Southern France for 10 years and lived there for majority of that time, I found tax situation crippling, red tape insurmountable, corruption rife and poverty common. Most eu incentives, if not all, went into hands of wrong people. The social gap in Northern Spain is way wider than home. Admiited none of this was directly the EU's fault, but little , if anything, had been achieved by them. All the problems europe faces were hidden in remain's campaign. Rightly or wrongly I chose to vote leave for absolutely nothing to do with the bus, immigration,the nhs, social reasons. It was purely on what I have witnessed and experienced in EU. Reading Hargreaves Lansdown via Peter Hargreaves only reinforced my feelings to vote leave.
For this , such as you Steb label me a racist. My father is Jamaican, mother English , wifes' parents mixed race. My kids speak fluent French,Spanish ( having lived there for 8 years) and a Yorkshire version of English.
I,m afraid IMO its such as yourself full of prejudice and at times hate . We,ve been here before with other posters, all remain.

I still firmly believe UK would thrive outside EU.( I think Peter Hargreaves is more qualified than any in here ) but for sake of social cohesion I would vote remain in a 2nd ref.

Its always easier to generalise as you do and ironically you don't see that that is the exact quality used by a racist.
"All ****** ( fill in nationality) are *****. ( fill in required adjective )

All .....( leavers) are ......( racist) ?

See the similarity Steb ? Irony..