Brexit, for once some facts.

[Steb]

Steb....but its not the Leavers who can be blamed for Brexit,as Liam Fox said he has been waiting 40 years for Brexit. This mess we are in has been caused by the Tory party,or more precise the 80 odd fascists within it,they took advantage of UKIP to pressure Cameron into the referendum and May is really only a puppet controlled by the same.
The Leavers are quite frankly sheep who were persuaded by all sorts of reasons,long since to be lies...the £350 million on the big red bus did influence a lot of votes,bringing back control....what the hell that means?,the party for everyone....everyone who has a big country pile and loves fox hunting!!!!
But the fascists have done a good job of keeping the electorate away from a proper and informed vote on Brexit,if parliament was given a free vote we would be talking to the EU how we will unravel this Brexit nonsense but neither May nor Corbyn want that. This statement that 80% of the country voted for Brexit in the last GE was rubbish....Labour got such a strong vote because it was an anti-Tory vote against May's position on pensions,and Labour harnessed the young on student fees....The GE was supposed to be about Brexit but Brexit was hardly considered,that was stupid May's fault but as a remainer I am pleased she made such a mess of it.
The problem is now how is the current true voice to be heard and the 'will of the people' to be actioned because neither May or Corbyn want to U-turn on Brexit,so we are all sheep being herded over the cliff edge.
KudosDave

the problem is that Darwinian evolution still operates. being sheep often means getting slaughtered. I'm not advocating a dog eat dog reality, but caveat emptor must apply to all of us to some degree. if we treat the electorate like a bunch of cretins and spoon feed them information (perhaps Attenborough to do a new series?) we'd be setting ourselves up for a further "brexit" in ten years as the bunch of overindulged babies throw another racist rattle out of their cots. Much better to get some reality based therapy.

anyway, were the leavers persuaded by lies or were they selfish, dreaming of a nationality based gravy train in which they dictate to and exploit the world without contributing?

 

[oldgroaner]

Why are we assuming its a done deal ? Because nobody is suggesting otherwise, apart from perhaps 60% of voting public now ??

Because there are no available means to divert the cause of events that can be described as legally or democratically acceptable that will not generate a wave of antgonism among that section of the public that believe Brexit is the Right thing to do.
There is no means of persuasion that they will respond to, and no one willing to lead the charge, that is not tainted with past misdeeds.
And then of course even if there was, the agreement of the 27 other Nations cannot be assumed without a price that may not be acceptable to the voters attached.

Historically there is just one parallel that strikes a Chord

Emperor Hirohito's speech accepting the inevitability of defeat

"The war situation has developed
not necessarily to Japan's advantage
While the General trends of the world
Have all turned against her interest.

As a VERY Last resort one supposes it would be worth a giggle to write to the Queen and ask her to give it the Royal "We are not amused"

 

[oldgroaner]

Still, I believe this country needs a proper coalition to bring the two sides together.

Tell me, what good will that do? will it change the reality that two sets of inept clowns agree to Waltz instead of Tango?

Frankly the Westminster version of Monty Python's Flying Circus are not going to rescue anything other than their Expenses and Gold Plated Pensions are they?
Put not your faith in Politicians.You'd be better off sacrificing Sausages to Offler the Crocodile God in Terry Pratchetts Books
Remember their creed?
When the sausages are cooked the Priest eats them and declares the essence of the sausage has gone up to the God Offler and they just eat the "Shell" of the sausage, which is why sausages always smell better when cooked than they taste.

Come to think of it that is as damned near a perfect description of the logic of Brexit as any I've seen

 

[oldgroaner]

the problem is that Darwinian evolution still operates. being sheep often means getting slaughtered. I'm not advocating a dog eat dog reality, but caveat emptor must apply to all of us to some degree. if we treat the electorate like a bunch of cretins and spoon feed them information (perhaps Attenborough to do a new series?) we'd be setting ourselves up for a further "brexit" in ten years as the bunch of overindulged babies throw another racist rattle out of their cots. Much better to get some reality based therapy.

anyway, were the leavers persuaded by lies or were they selfish, dreaming of a nationality based gravy train in which they dictate to and exploit the world without contributing?

Yes covers that I think! and i agree entirely that a lesson is long overdue unfortunately.

 

[Woosh]

anyway, were the leavers persuaded by lies or were they selfish, dreaming of a nationality based gravy train in which they dictate to and exploit the world without contributing?

1. Take back control
2. Reduce immigration
3. Money for the NHS

Except money for the NHS, I don't think much has changed the logic of 1 and 2.

 

[oldgroaner]

1. Take back control
2. Reduce immigration
3. Money for the NHS

Except money for the NHS, I don't think much has changed the logic of 1 and 2.

Would that money by any chance be the result of selling it off?

 

[Woosh]

Would that money by any chance be the result of selling it off?

It can't get much worse as it is at the moment. What is the point for a system that functions on the principle that you have to wait until your health has deteriorated enough before treating you?
It just makes health care more expensive and inefficient on the long run.

 

[oldtom]

What a mess this government has made of the whole business of secession. Ben Bradshaw now reckons it simply won't happen and if the latest developments are anything to go by, then Bradshaw may be right.

The country should be given the opportunity to rescind the 'will of the people' now that some stark and unappealing facts are emerging which no-one would have considered 12 months ago.

brexit-eu-negotiator-europe-euratom-airline-safety-negotiations-theresa-may-worse-anyone-guessed-a7858586.html

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Just in case anyone has missed Ben Bradshaw's statement, it's here in a Plymouth news organ:

story.html

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

the problem is that Darwinian evolution still operates. being sheep often means getting slaughtered. I'm not advocating a dog eat dog reality, but caveat emptor must apply to all of us to some degree. if we treat the electorate like a bunch of cretins and spoon feed them information (perhaps Attenborough to do a new series?) we'd be setting ourselves up for a further "brexit" in ten years as the bunch of overindulged babies throw another racist rattle out of their cots. Much better to get some reality based therapy.

anyway, were the leavers persuaded by lies or were they selfish, dreaming of a nationality based gravy train in which they dictate to and exploit the world without contributing?

Well at least we all sink together...sheep, remainers...the lot of us...

 

[Zlatan]

Because there are no available means to divert the cause of events that can be described as legally or democratically acceptable that will not generate a wave of antgonism among that section of the public that believe Brexit is the Right thing to do.
There is no means of persuasion that they will respond to, and no one willing to lead the charge, that is not tainted with past misdeeds.
And then of course even if there was, the agreement of the 27 other Nations cannot be assumed without a price that may not be acceptable to the voters attached.

Historically there is just one parallel that strikes a Chord

Emperor Hirohito's speech accepting the inevitability of defeat

"The war situation has developed
not necessarily to Japan's advantage
While the General trends of the world
Have all turned against her interest.

As a VERY Last resort one supposes it would be worth a giggle to write to the Queen and ask her to give it the Royal "We are not amused"

Would it be any bigger than wave of antagonism we are witnessing now OG ?? Besides, so what. Somebody is going to be cheesed off whatever happens, we,d be better making right choice ; suffering moaning from whichever side .
Fact is ( again) nobody has conviction to actually offer stopping Brexit as a manifesto/ policy..
Labour's stance is senseless.

 

[oldgroaner]

It can't get much worse as it is at the moment. What is the point for a system that functions on the principle that you have to wait until your health has deteriorated enough before treating you?
It just makes health care more expensive and inefficient on the long run.

Don't worry the answer lies in the omnipotent new IT system that make not getting an appointment much faster and is therefore more cost effective

 

[oldgroaner]

Would it be any bigger than wave of antagonism we are witnessing now OG ?? Besides, so what. Somebody is going to be cheesed off whatever happens, we,d be better making right choice ; suffering moaning from whichever side .
Fact is ( again) nobody has conviction to actually offer stopping Brexit as a manifesto/ policy..
Labour's stance is senseless.

Don't get me wrong, I agree, except in one respect: the wave of antagonism, when it comes will I fear be an order of magnitude worse than that engendered by cancelling Brexit now.

 

[oldgroaner]

Well at least we all sink together...sheep, remainers...the lot of us...

"And on this upbeat note, we return you to the Studio?"

 

[Steb]

Well at least we all sink together...sheep, remainers...the lot of us...

in a sense - on the plus side (I hope) we are beginning to see the tories experience their long feared split about Europe and a labour that looks more like a labour party

 

[Zlatan]

in a sense - on the plus side (I hope) we are beginning to see the tories experience their long feared split about Europe and a labour that looks more like a labour party

Agreed.

 

[oldtom]

I think this is made-up because I happen to know that the 'Yorkshire Ripper' spells 'criticise' with an 's' and not a 'z'.

Nonetheless, I can understand how Sutcliffe might admire a mass murderer on a scale infinitely greater than his own efforts. It escapes me though why Sutcliffe has served 36 years inside while the Rupert Murdoch-blessed pink tory has still to appear in court....??



Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

I think this is made-up because I happen to know that the 'Yorkshire Ripper' spells 'criticise' with an 's' and not a 'z'.

Nonetheless, I can understand how Sutcliffe might admire a mass murderer on a scale infinitely greater than his own efforts. It escapes me though why Sutcliffe has served 36 years inside while the Rupert Murdoch-blessed pink tory has still to appear in court....??

View attachment 20448

Tom

Because the Iraq war was profitable for the paymasters in the Armaments and oil Trade?

 

[oldtom]

Because the Iraq war was profitable for the paymasters in the Armaments and oil Trade?

Ah, now I remember! Thanks for reminding me - I was starting to worry that there is just no justice.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

today's best brexit quote:

(Brexit is) like complaining about a haircut while still in the chair. So we watch the mirror in mounting anxiety, fretting that this was never what we had asked for, forcing a smile nonetheless, knowing we’ll still pay at the end.

"We can’t get cold feet now. We’ve booked the caterers."