Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
apologies for repeating what's been said, but "politics" is the word, its all expedience - he's placating the brexit mob. he cant say he is anti brexit (we all know he's ambivalent but on balance would stay in a reformed - i.e. more workers' rights oriented - eu). he is playing the long game, what else is he supposed to do, commit sepuku by pissing of an evidently uninformed unintelligent electorate that don't know what's good for them or their offspring by trying to see if they can engage with the truth? I think we've tried that before, it doesn't work.
Well said Steb, it baffles me how few understand this.
.
I think he should say what he'd like to do differently to TM.
It's not enough to say he'd be more diplomatic while still believing in the same thing that Johnson, Gove, Davis and Fox believe in.
Carwyn Jones, labour First Minister for Wales, said quite correctly (BBC Today program)
Maybe the UK needs to get out before coming to the time of reckoning, when the population at large can figure out for themselves.
Last edited:
Playing long game ? Its second half of extra time with 5 minutes remaining ! If he doesn't do something soon its simply too late !
Will he campaign next time on "getting into EU"?
The maths has been in his favour since last June and is even more so now..
Even if worse thing happened and labour voters jumped ship to Ukip ( which won't happen now) he,d be no worse off than at moment.
You devout remainers aren't making sense. On the one hand you say remainers are being ignored but on the other there aren't enough to vote a remainer into no 10...( sorry for repeating this but more folk voted remain than voted conservative in last GE and remain has grown stronger since then.
Simple fact is JC does not want power at all, in or out if eu, he simply wants to be shadow PM ( I was careful not to use opposition because he never opposes)
Will he campaign next time on "getting into EU"?
The maths has been in his favour since last June and is even more so now..
Even if worse thing happened and labour voters jumped ship to Ukip ( which won't happen now) he,d be no worse off than at moment.
You devout remainers aren't making sense. On the one hand you say remainers are being ignored but on the other there aren't enough to vote a remainer into no 10...( sorry for repeating this but more folk voted remain than voted conservative in last GE and remain has grown stronger since then.
Simple fact is JC does not want power at all, in or out if eu, he simply wants to be shadow PM ( I was careful not to use opposition because he never opposes)
yes, but its worth remembering who got us into this position ("you leavers") - it's rich to expect "us remainers" to save brexiters from their obsessive desire to self destruct (and take us with them). unfortunately I don't think this game will be decided on a penalty shootout. the "team" will have to be relegated to the lowest division and the "players" (make that brexiters) will have to learn the hard way that the 21st century doesn't have much space for 19th century prejudice and delusions of grandeur. I'm afraid were at the stage of the game where you will have to down your pit and come to terms with going home and waiting for a few more seasons before you will feel anything other than quite unhappy..
With all respect, that's a ludicrous argument.
Firstly, leaver or remainer we are all in it together, laying blame at voters is pointless, especially when what is probably a majority are being ignored.
The trouble is nobody at all is representing remain, in a so called democracy that is simply appalling.
You argument revolves around quite an immature stance of " we told you" rather than what is best for us now.
If labour had supported remain at least we would know the support it actually has. They didn't, we don't and as irs going perhaps never will.
Assuming we can be "promoted" after relegation is a massive mistake. Ask Leeds.
Yes, how many times do i have to say it? He doesn't want power at the moment and have to handle Brexit. That's a no win job.
Next time after March 2019 he'll still sit on the fence if it's necessary to win, but come off it if the country is decisively Remain then. He's been a long time in politics and knows how to play it.
.
not really, you started it (does the phrase "you devout remainers aren't making sense" ring a bell?). I'm simply a realist. brexit has comprehensively screwed the UK. You do with respect sound an ex leaver who now not only want to rapidly reverse not only your own shifting self interest, but also reality. that isn't going to happen. brexit, as the ugly lady said, means brexit.
Steb....but its not the Leavers who can be blamed for Brexit,as Liam Fox said he has been waiting 40 years for Brexit. This mess we are in has been caused by the Tory party,or more precise the 80 odd fascists within it,they took advantage of UKIP to pressure Cameron into the referendum and May is really only a puppet controlled by the same.
The Leavers are quite frankly sheep who were persuaded by all sorts of reasons,long since to be lies...the £350 million on the big red bus did influence a lot of votes,bringing back control....what the hell that means?,the party for everyone....everyone who has a big country pile and loves fox hunting!!!!
But the fascists have done a good job of keeping the electorate away from a proper and informed vote on Brexit,if parliament was given a free vote we would be talking to the EU how we will unravel this Brexit nonsense but neither May nor Corbyn want that. This statement that 80% of the country voted for Brexit in the last GE was rubbish....Labour got such a strong vote because it was an anti-Tory vote against May's position on pensions,and Labour harnessed the young on student fees....The GE was supposed to be about Brexit but Brexit was hardly considered,that was stupid May's fault but as a remainer I am pleased she made such a mess of it.
The problem is now how is the current true voice to be heard and the 'will of the people' to be actioned because neither May or Corbyn want to U-turn on Brexit,so we are all sheep being herded over the cliff edge.
KudosDave
Last edited:
Has JC come off the fence?....he seems to be saying that we are leaving the single market and customs union but replacing it with an identical arrangement called a free trade deal,the EU have made it very clear that we are not going to get that. So effectively he is still sitting on the fence waiting for May to screw up and then take a position,that may be a soft Remain (now there's a new phrase 'soft Remain',that is Brexit to suit the remainers...looks like we are leaving but in reality we stayed.
KudosDave
I sorry flecc and stab, I follow fleccs arguement and your explanation of it, but must respectfully disagree. I don't want to get sucked into UK politics, a topic which does not interest me, but if your analysis is correct, then I would have to consider Mr Corbyns behaviour as craven.The UK is going down a path of as you say sepuku, with a real likelhood of major reductions to the rights of workers, and the political party whose traditional stance has been in supporting those rights, is mute.
That ressmogg creature might be despicable, but his stance is full blooded, and such behaviour resonates as authentic with people.
Last edited:
Not quite what you would hope is it? lets see
About 360,000 Minis are made each year, with more than 60% of them built at Oxford. But BMW has built up an alternative manufacturing base in the Netherlands amid concerns about Britain's suitability as an export hub after Brexit.
This is not a brand new car, redesigned from the ground up. It's a Mini, a 3-door hatchback, which will in many ways be identical to the cars already being built at the Cowley plant.
The electric bit - the drivetrain, which includes the motor, gearbox and battery pack - will be assembled in Germany, and fixed to the rest of the car in the factory.
In other words not made here
So it makes sense to build the new model at the same factory as the majority of existing Mini production. There is no need for a new factory or production line, meaning the size of the investment will be relatively small by auto-industry standards - in "the tens of millions", BMW says.
In other words a cheap option
There is a potential spanner in the works - the new car is due to go into production in 2019, months after the UK leaves the EU.
With drivetrains being imported into the UK and many completed cars exported back to Europe, there's a risk costs could rise sharply if tariffs are introduced on cross-channel trade.
Not the Shock Horror you implied is it?
Its a cheap temporary "Fudge" on an existing body style till the New Models come onstream in the EU
I think you are right ( again!) but its one thing saying mentioned path is a possible outcome but quite another wanting it, as some seem to.
IMHO there are two reasons the next few years ( ???) are likely to be a disaster.
A) Present governments inability to handle Brexit.
B) Oppositions inability to offer an alternative, either extracating ourselves in a beneficial manner or saying "no" to the whole proceedure.
Why are we assuming its a done deal ? Because nobody is suggesting otherwise, apart from perhaps 60% of voting public now ???
It will probably use the existing system from BMW's i3 e-car, very similar size etc. It'll be interesting to see if they have a range extender Mini version, using the same twin cylinder petrol engine.
.
I think it's good that he has. He is entitled to show leadership, even if it is hard brexit.
Still, I believe this country needs a proper coalition to bring the two sides together.