Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

We cancelled Blue Streak in 1960 on several grounds and that meant we had wasted multi millions of pounds. That decision was more than a little controversial.

As for replacing our nuclear power generators in this 21st century, the French seem to have us over a barrel. Projects of such enormity should be providing employment for several years; employment for lots of British engineers. Sadly, I suspect that the workforce will be multi-national with relatively few of our own people involved. I'd like to think I'm wrong there but I'm not certain we have the skill base any more, those skills that built the previous generation of stations, several decades ago.

That aside, is it beyond the wit of British business and our parliament to put together a costed package to finance and construct our own nuclear stations? Frankly, I think we should do a 'Blue Streak' on the current project and make a start on doing it by ourselves in due course. The increase in price already will almost certainly not be the last and we would probably save ourselves lots of money by paying any penalty charges now that will be repaid many times over in the long term.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

There is much truth in this infographic:



Tom

 

[Woosh]

Best Quote of the Day so far

"Brexit is a lie sold to a willing audience."

Works for me.

when you go to vote, you believe in some of the lies.

 

[Danidl]

It is rare to find anyone who now considers Brexit a good idea but most think it is not reversible and accept it as a done deal.
I remember the guy who invented Article 50 (an English guy), said it was reversible.
It's just difficult to see who would have the nerve to stand up and shout...BREXIT IS A BAD IDEA,WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE POORER AND WE SHOULD FORGET ABOUT IT.....May wouldn't dare,Corbyn wouldn't dare......Hammond??????
KudosDave

.. Kudo Dave, regrettably, the answer is no no no it was a lie or a canard that Brexit is reversible . Putting it bluntly after the UK sent in their A50 letter, they have lost all control and are now dependent on comfort of strangers.
This English Scottish guy who claims it's reversible , no matter how respectable or eminent, is blowing smoke. Show the article in the EU regulations which allow it. At best it's a pious hope.

Were the UK request it's return , then it would require an extraordinary unanamous vote of the remaining countries to set it aside. Ireland would support the UK in this as would France and Germany. But any country with a grievance could veto it, including Spain, with its Gibraltar, Are there 26 countries in Europe which have no outstanding grievances, with the green and pleasant land where the new Jerusalem should be built? Leading politicians from the UK have been insulting their near neighbours for years.

 

[oldgroaner]

when you go to vote, you believe in some of the lies.

No I do not, just choose what I perceive the lesser evil if I vote at all.
let me give an example
I voted Labour in the General Election we have just had, despite them failing miserably on the main points I have interest in

1. Brexit, which they should be opposing, Corbyn regards the EU as a Capitalist swindle. That is to some extent true but while in it we could have worked towards change
2. Socialism isn't a local parochial thing as the Little Englanders think, it is or should be working towards an eventual World Government, not bricking itself into a second rate offshore declining nation, and this cannot be achieved by a "Second Dunkirk"

So why did I vote for them? in an attempt to prevent complete power falling into the hands of the Tory Mafia of course.

 

[oldgroaner]

.. Kudo Dave, regrettably, the answer is no no no it was a lie or a canard that Brexit is reversible . Putting it bluntly after the UK sent in their A50 letter, they have lost all control and are now dependent on comfort of strangers.
This English Scottish guy who claims it's reversible , no matter how respectable or eminent, is blowing smoke. Show the article in the EU regulations which allow it. At best it's a pious hope.

Were the UK request it's return , then it would require an extraordinary unanamous vote of the remaining countries to set it aside. Ireland would support the UK in this as would France and Germany. But any country with a grievance could veto it, including Spain, with its Gibraltar, Are there 26 countries in Europe which have no outstanding grievances, with the green and pleasant land where the new Jerusalem should be built? Leading politicians from the UK have been insulting their near neighbours for years.

Why try to stop it? let it go ahead, and we, collectively, whatever befalls will learn a valuable lesson.
And in the fullness of time rejoin the EU when we properly understand it's value, (or not as the case may be)

 

[flecc]

.. Kudo Dave, regrettably, the answer is no no no it was a lie or a canard that Brexit is reversible . Putting it bluntly after the UK sent in their A50 letter, they have lost all control and are now dependent on comfort of strangers.
This English Scottish guy who claims it's reversible , no matter how respectable or eminent, is blowing smoke. Show the article in the EU regulations which allow it. At best it's a pious hope.

Were the UK request it's return , then it would require an extraordinary unanamous vote of the remaining countries to set it aside. Ireland would support the UK in this as would France and Germany. But any country with a grievance could veto it, including Spain, with its Gibraltar, Are there 26 countries in Europe which have no outstanding grievances, with the green and pleasant land where the new Jerusalem should be built? Leading politicians from the UK have been insulting their near neighbours for years.

While I agree that Brexit isn't reversible by current statute, I think in practice we could get agreement to withdraw article 50. My reasons for saying this are:

1) The propaganda value to the EU of a country realising withdrawal is disadvantageous.

2) The deterrent effect it would have on others considering the same.

3) The economic advantage to Germany of us remaining.

4) It's US policy that we should be in the EU.

I think the EU leaders, Germany and France would all put considerable pressure on any EU country trying to obstruct rescinding the article 50 notice.
.

 

[tillson]

We cancelled Blue Streak in 1960 on several grounds and that meant we had wasted multi millions of pounds. That decision was more than a little controversial.

As for replacing our nuclear power generators in this 21st century, the French seem to have us over a barrel. Projects of such enormity should be providing employment for several years; employment for lots of British engineers. Sadly, I suspect that the workforce will be multi-national with relatively few of our own people involved. I'd like to think I'm wrong there but I'm not certain we have the skill base any more, those skills that built the previous generation of stations, several decades ago.

That aside, is it beyond the wit of British business and our parliament to put together a costed package to finance and construct our own nuclear stations? Frankly, I think we should do a 'Blue Streak' on the current project and make a start on doing it by ourselves in due course. The increase in price already will almost certainly not be the last and we would probably save ourselves lots of money by paying any penalty charges now that will be repaid many times over in the long term.

Tom

I think you are correct about the UK seeing little benefit from the nuclear industry. My sister lives in Somerset not far from Hinckley point. She was telling me at the weekend how all of the construction workers live in "pop-up hotels" on or close to the site. The site has social amenities, therefore the local economy sees very little benefit.

As you say, most of the workers are foreign national's because we only breed people for respectable professions such as, wanna be pop-star, lawyer or money launderer in this country. An engineer is a grubby man in overalls with an adjustable wrench in his back pocket. Not the sort of thing mummy's little snowflake should be getting involved with.

I think we should cancel the whole thing, and let the lights go out. Perhaps then people will appreciate engineers and scientists and the things that they bring to their everyday life.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think you are correct about the UK seeing little benefit from the nuclear industry. My sister lives in Somerset not far from Hinckley point. She was telling me at the weekend how all of the construction workers live in "pop-up hotels" on or close to the site. The site has social amenities, therefore the local economy sees very little benefit.

As you say, most of the workers are foreign national's because we only breed people for respectable professions such as, wanna be pop-star, lawyer or money launderer in this country. An engineer is a grubby man in overalls with an adjustable wrench in his back pocket. Not the sort of thing mummy's little snowflake should be getting involved with.

I think we should cancel the whole thing, and let the lights go out. Perhaps then people will appreciate engineers and scientists and the things that they bring to their everyday life.

I like it tillson I really do
Snag is that try as I might, I can't imagine a world where Engineers aren't seen as a necessary evil.

 

[flecc]

I can't imagine a world where Engineers aren't seen as a necessary evil.

That world is called Germany. There engineers are highly valued and respected and many qualify for the title Doctor.
.

 

[oldtom]

Love this.......



Tom

 

[oldtom]

That world is called Germany. There engineers are highly valued and respected and many qualify for the title Doctor.
.

Correct 'flecc'! The difference, of course, is that the Germans post WW2, with the help of the UK and USA began with a blank canvas but with the help of huge financial investment, much of it from us, built a modern, industrially-based economy while the UK languished in the relative dark ages with ancient machinery much of it unchanged since the early days of the industrial revolution.

Within four decades, the German economy was light years ahead of ours and remains so to this day. Incredibly, the Germans still dig coal some of which has been purchased by us. The German broad-spectrum socialism has served their country well over the last half-century and works seamlessly with private enterprise.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

That world is called Germany. There engineers are highly valued and respected and many qualify for the title Doctor.
.

Yes I have been there and saw what you say was true, but that is a world we have just excluded ourselves from, isn't it?

It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't work for the same Mutinational I did, but it might as well have been a different planet the difference in the way we were treated (except among ourselves)

 

[oldgroaner]

Love this.......

View attachment 19999

Tom

Classic!

 

[oldgroaner]

And in other news
"
Bank of England staff vote for first strike in 50 years"
Unite said some Bank staff earned less than £20,000 pounds a year so a 1 percent pay rise would potentially leave them facing financial hardship.

In London?

 

[oldgroaner]

Here's Mays possible successor on top form

Education and Michael Gove are words that should never be used together except as a warning

 

[anotherkiwi]

Time for a Margaret Thatcher quote refresher course? Right!

There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women, and there are families.

Death of a nation in 17 words right there...

One for the wicked witch:

Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't.

Didn't you you hear that one Ms May? <aside to public> Maybe she didn't understand what that meant?...

 

[Danidl]

While I agree that Brexit isn't reversible by current statute, I think in practice we could get agreement to withdraw article 50. My reasons for saying this are:

1) The propaganda value to the EU of a country realising withdrawal is disadvantageous.

2) The deterrent effect it would have on others considering the same.

3) The economic advantage to Germany of us remaining.

4) It's US policy that we should be in the EU.

I think the EU leaders, Germany and France would all put considerable pressure on any EU country trying to obstruct rescinding the article 50 notice.
.

I agree with your reasons, and I would hope that such would be the outcome. But it effectively means that the UK admits it's mistake and eats humble pie. It's not a diet they are used to.
I can assure UK citizens that Ireland , both sides, would be fully supportive, without conditions , for a UK rethink and retention. Our new taoseach, has recently said so.

 

[Danidl]

Why try to stop it? let it go ahead, and we, collectively, whatever befalls will learn a valuable lesson.
And in the fullness of time rejoin the EU when we properly understand it's value, (or not as the case may be)

... I m a softie, .. it will hurt many people, bigly.

 

[anotherkiwi]

... I m a softie, .. it will hurt many people, bigly.

They need to. Pain is the road that leads to humble pie. The US is going down the same road. Strange coincidence or not?