Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Start as you mean to go on, as the saying goes.
From the Express
"
Theresa May 'fails to submit opening Brexit negotiation papers' DAYS before vital talks
BREXIT negotiations could start embarrassingly for Britain after it emerged Theresa May’s Government has failed to outlined their opening negotiation position to the EU ahead of Monday’s talks, according to reports."

I have to ask: have they actually got one?

 

[anotherkiwi]

I just read that some of the first EU red tape preventing you lot from getting things done and to be thrown out are building regulations...

Good luck with that! Looks like you weren't following them any way...

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Independent
"In terms of what is politically viable, the two choices this country faces are not whether we leave the EU or whether we remain, that question is now settled, and if anyone is angry about this they should direct it at David Cameron for calling the referendum in the first place. But having called it, the vast majority of people accept that the result should now be respected.

Actually there is no proof whatever of this, this statement would have a higher probability of being true

Most people accept that there is no possibility of this horrendous error being averted.
The lib Dems failed because they were untrustworthy and clearly had no chance of mounting a real threat.
Will no one save us from the madness to come?

 

[Danidl]

Start as you mean to go on, as the saying goes.
From the Express
"
Theresa May 'fails to submit opening Brexit negotiation papers' DAYS before vital talks
BREXIT negotiations could start embarrassingly for Britain after it emerged Theresa May’s Government has failed to outlined their opening negotiation position to the EU ahead of Monday’s talks, according to reports."

I have to ask: have they actually got one?

.. Even if they had one three weeks ago, it is in tatters now

 

[Kudoscycles]

I am beginning to think that May hasn't a clue how to start the UK side of the Brexit negotiations. Between the DUP,the Tory 'bastards',Sinn Fein,the Scottish Tories etc etc ,all with directly competing Brexit outcome.
I think it is just too much for her to cope with,the Grenfell Fire and the recent terrorist attacks all adding to the stress.
She is a coward when life gets tough.
Has she given up on Brexit?
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

I am beginning to think that May hasn't a clue how to start the UK side of the Brexit negotiations. Between the DUP,the Tory 'bastards',Sinn Fein,the Scottish Tories etc etc ,all with directly competing Brexit outcome.
I think it is just too much for her to cope with,the Grenfell Fire and the recent terrorist attacks all adding to the stress.
She is a coward when life gets tough.
Has she given up on Brexit?
KudosDave

Isn't your post a bit contradictory?

 

[Danidl]

I am beginning to think that May hasn't a clue how to start the UK side of the Brexit negotiations. Between the DUP,the Tory 'bastards',Sinn Fein,the Scottish Tories etc etc ,all with directly competing Brexit outcome.
I think it is just too much for her to cope with,the Grenfell Fire and the recent terrorist attacks all adding to the stress.
She is a coward when life gets tough.
Has she given up on Brexit?
KudosDave

.. I doubt that anyone can currently square that circle. DUP and SF actually want something similar on Brexit.. no border controls on the island of Ireland. , Scots cons want a very soft brexit, Labour want a Brexit in name only , it is the hardliners within the southern cons who want the hard Brexit. Unless she can deliver a hard Brexit, there will be a resurgence of the ukip, so she is in a hard place.

 

[oldgroaner]

So Monday is the start date for the EU to tell us what they will allow us to have is it?
What a shambles, no plan, no support, no credibility, no point to carrying on with this decision we are supposed to respect as it was
Democratically reached with slight caveats, including

1. the support was based on a pack of lies
2. It was only advisory anyway
3. The win margin was woefully inadequate for a referendum so it doesn't actually qualify as more than a popularity contest
4. All the evidence bar none has been indicative it will be a disaster
5. The Government is incompetent to run a Whelk Stall, and it's survival even in the short term is in doubt. It has been weakened and discredited by it's own actions and the Maybot in charge, who has the outgoing charm of Attila the Hun, supported by a "Three Stooges" Tribute act to negotiate our terms of surrender.
   
6. No Plan, unless no Plan was actually the plan and failure the intent.
7. There isn't a hope in hell that the Government really cares about what the Brexit voters wanted out of Brexit, it's just a means of imposing a new hard right strangle hold on the Public and it's standard of living.

Can somebody say something reassuring at this point?
Remind us please of the many joys Brexit will bring.

 

[Woosh]

I watched BBC's 'Planet oil' on iplayer this morning. This reminds me of some of the similarities with brexit in British politics, have cake and eat it. We tried it with Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Gulf States etc.
This time, there is no North Sea oil to pay for a hard brexit.
it's not so much that TM does not have a plan as she can't have one.
Let somebody else do the job.

 

[oldgroaner]

Let somebody else do the job.

And that person or persons is.......

 

[Woosh]

And that person or persons is.......

cross-party committee's head of exiting the EU, Hilary Benn.

 

[oldgroaner]

cross-party committee's head of exiting the EU, Hilary Benn.

Perhaps he can employ an Air strike to convince the EU to give us what we want?
To be honest I doubt if it will make the slightest difference no matter who we send, unless they are going to ask politely
"Can we have article 50 Notification back please?"
Sorry for any inconvenience etc.,

 

[Woosh]

I don't think recalling A50 is going to achieve majority support in parliament or in the electorate. It seems obvious now that a hard brexit is costly in the next 10-15 years. The question is, can the UK afford the cost of hard brexit? I guess the answer is no because of our already very high national debt and poor state of public services, then a soft brexit is the only solution that would have majority support. As the conservatives can't do this alone, it has to be headed by the cross-party committee.

 

[Woosh]

An article in the telegraph quoted 'Mr Fox has targeted a near-doubling of exports to £1trn a year by 2020'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connect/small-business/international-trade/is-the-uk-a-fat-and-lazy-trading-nation/

The only thing we have over the EU is their trade surplus, they sell to us sub-assemblies that we integrate into our products and sell on to countries outside the EU. After brexit, it is doubtful that companies are going to retain the same supply chains for long if we impose import duty on EU imports. The result is we should expect a reduction in EU imports and corresponding reduction in selling on EU goods.

 

[flecc]

And that person or persons is.......

No-one.

The only sensible thing now is the one that needs courage, to back out of leaving the EU and admit the UK governments have made serious mistakes in this matter. Less than a 4% margin of the voters and far less of the electorate was never a public mandate for such a serious move as leaving the EU and certainly not in any way permission for a hard Brexit, and that should be admitted and acted upon.

Following that we should change to a proportional representation voting system and resolve to govern by government in future. Only in that way can we safeguard ourselves against the loony extremes of politics right and left while nullifying the ill effects of a largely ignorant electorate.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

No-one.

The only sensible thing now is the one that needs courage, to back out of leaving the EU and admit the UK governments have made serious mistakes in this matter. Less than a 4% margin was never a public mandate for such a serious move as leaving the EU and certainly not in any way permission for a hard Brexit, and that should be admitted and acted upon.

Following that we should change to a proportional representation voting system and resolve to govern by government in future. Only in that way can we safeguard ourselves against the loony extremes of politics right and left while nullifying the ill effects of a largely ignorant electorate.
.

Eloquently put, I completely agree

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

No-one.

The only sensible thing now is the one that needs courage, to back out of leaving the EU and admit the UK governments have made serious mistakes in this matter. Less than a 4% margin of the voters and far less of the electorate was never a public mandate for such a serious move as leaving the EU and certainly not in any way permission for a hard Brexit, and that should be admitted and acted upon.

Following that we should change to a proportional representation voting system and resolve to govern by government in future. Only in that way can we safeguard ourselves against the loony extremes of politics right and left while nullifying the ill effects of a largely ignorant electorate.
.

I have absolute faith that we will take the sensible action flecc suggested.

Even if nobody else has[emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Kudoscycles]

.. I doubt that anyone can currently square that circle. DUP and SF actually want something similar on Brexit.. no border controls on the island of Ireland. , Scots cons want a very soft brexit, Labour want a Brexit in name only , it is the hardliners within the southern cons who want the hard Brexit. Unless she can deliver a hard Brexit, there will be a resurgence of the ukip, so she is in a hard place.

Too much has happened since the referendum and UKIP has shown within that they are a finished party,no chance of the return of UKIP. Theresa May has moved so far right to satisfy the Tory fascists that UKIP no longer has a place.
But May is so far right she forgot about the middle ground,the core Tory vote and also underestimated Corbyn. She has shown herself to be a robot who cannot adapt to changes in the political climate,just the person you don't want in negotiations with the EU.
As Osborne said she is 'a dead woman walking'.....she hasn't a clue how to get the UK out of this mess.
Corbyn would rape my business but I think I would prefer that to this current mess that will get worse when we start the Brexit negotiations.
The trouble is who would replace her....Boris,Leadsom,Gove,Davis,Rudd...I don't like the thought of any of those.
Maybe a cross party committee to negotiate Brexit would be a good idea but the Tory 'bastards' would spit blood at the risk of a soft Brexit.
KudosDave

 

[tillson]

Start as you mean to go on, as the saying goes.
From the Express
"
Theresa May 'fails to submit opening Brexit negotiation papers' DAYS before vital talks
BREXIT negotiations could start embarrassingly for Britain after it emerged Theresa May’s Government has failed to outlined their opening negotiation position to the EU ahead of Monday’s talks, according to reports."

I have to ask: have they actually got one?

A valid question and one which I want to know the answer to.

I am thinking that they have no plan, that they are incapable of forming a plan and if they had a plan, too disorganised to follow it.

 

[tillson]

And that person or persons is.......

Nicholas Parsons.