Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Two questions that require answers are these
What if anything will result from Brexit that bears any resemblance to the promises made by the leave campaign to sway the vote their way?
Does anyone really believe that any Government or alternative party that takes power has the foresight, patience, willingness to invest and make changes, and the courage to turn this country into a place where all members of the people live happy and productive lives within the framework of the next 25 years?
Anyone care to comment?
What if anything will result from Brexit that bears any resemblance to the promises made by the leave campaign to sway the vote their way?
Does anyone really believe that any Government or alternative party that takes power has the foresight, patience, willingness to invest and make changes, and the courage to turn this country into a place where all members of the people live happy and productive lives within the framework of the next 25 years?
Anyone care to comment?
You really are in denial aren't you!
You seem resolutely determined to see no connection between the far-right fascists running this country in the absence of a strong opposition, the right wing media bombarding the British public with propaganda and the fact that these are the people leading the nation into economic and political isolation.
By ignoring reality, you demonstrate what a heartless, compassionless individual you really are. Can you not see what this government has been doing and continues to do to the sick and disabled, to the elderly, to all those in need of NHS care and to the young people in need of good quality education and the possibility of affordable university education?
To claim that criticism of an evil tory government intent on delivering 'Brexit', in spite of the fact there is no logical, economic or strategic reason for it, is somehow 'off topic' in the face of their other disgraceful policies is just stupid but, coming from you, wholly unsurprising. You cannot simply say when the thread is entitled, 'Brexit, for once some facts', that mentioning the government and their propaganda purveyors is somehow removed from the central tenet of the thread - the selfsame government is central to and responsible for, not just 'Brexit' but all the other things with which I connect them.
Just to be clear, anyone who supports this government also supports the Israeli treatment of the Palestinian people and the Saudi Arabian treatment of Yemen. By declaring the UK to be friends with such evil regimes and to affirm our support for the USA, acting without UN or NATO approval in Syria then blaming Russia's support for Syria as the cause of the problems there puts this country at risk.
Perhaps Mrs May and her fascist collaborators act in your name when they repeatedly affirm UK solidarity with the nastiest regimes around but they certainly do not represent me or millions of other British people like me.
In case you have forgotten what right-wing politics has done for the UK, just cast your eye over these few examples:
Tom
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let's fast forward to March 2023.
The UK has finally stopped paying into the EU budget and no longer subjected to decision taken at the ECJ.
Whether the government at the time is a good one, I have no way of knowing until nearer to the time (May 2020) and about the quality of the next administration, that depends very much on who you are going to vote for in 2020.
that's correct, oldtom. I don't care for the right wing media, they have never affected me, I can't see why I should pay any attention to them.
I accept freedom of speech like everyone else, even if they talk rubbish.
The second part of this isn't necessarily true. The Great Repeal Bill passes into UK law a large number of past measures which contain references to various EU bodies including the ECJ as being the arbiters in certain circumstances. It follows that we will still be subject until such time as parliament gets to examine and amend such measures as the difficulties arise. That will take very much longer than the under six years to 2023. Parliament will probably be dealing with them for well over a decade yet and there's general agreement among lawyers that this will never be fully completed.
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We will stop being taken to the ECJ by businesses. Even so, I reckon the ECJ may still retain its superiority in arbitrations regarding a future FTA.
When Mrs May made the ECJ a redline, I originally thought the hard brexiters had won it but afterward, came to the same conclusion, we have to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union for brexit to succeed or fail. The middle ground, Customs Union, will be unsatisfactory for both sides.
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It's really more of a question of what sort of state the people are in rather than the Government that matters.
Brexit is unsatisfactory to both sides through reality creeping in .
Because of the effect they have had on mass opinion by obscuring the truth with lies, that is the reason to take notice of them.
If you were a brexiter, you would want such statement be proven by real fact.
How about this one then
The government is insisting on the continuation of free movement of EU trained people.
Because they will not fund the expensive education of our own children.
Or how about there will not be the £350 million going to the NHS
How many facts will it take?
No, but what I would like to see is that they are required to report the news not just party propaganda and be independent as they claim to be.
What is wrong with that?
these are practical measures. The wealth of this country is built mostly if not totally by immigrants and exploitation of colonies. It follows that future prosperity continues on the basis of immigration. I can't see any sensible government is going to stop immigration. Brexit puts the responsibility to manage immigration with the government of the day, rather than allowing them to hide behind 'it's the EU's fault'.
Had you forgotten that you wanted to curtail my freedom of speech here:
The topic necessarily requires comment on the people responsible for the passage of 'Brexit' so I have never really been off topic. You need to make up your mind about whether you do or do not accept freedom of speech, or is it the case perhaps that it's only OK when it suits you?
There is no getting away from the fact the UKIP fascists and their friends on the right of the tory Party contrived to bring about 'Brexit' thanks to the lies promulgated by their liars-in-chief and subsequently disseminated by the right-wing press that you claim to ignore. The connections between the tories, their media wing and corporate tax cheats are clear for everyone to see. When you add on the international elements I mentioned previously, it is starkly obvious that this government is not representing the decent, ordinary PAYE-tethered tax payers of this country.
Perhaps in your little bubble, there are no inequalities but I just get the feeling that you have no humanitarian side to your nature in which case, you would happily ignore the downtrodden, those made homeless thanks to armaments supplied by tory party donors and you would turn your back on the migrants that your government created.
I also get the feeling that for you, just like the unwelcome troll who frequents these pages, it's all about money. It isn't for me - can you believe that?
Tom
You know what, freedoms have a price. Nothing new.
Take the BBC, how many times their journalists, reporters and editors make me cringe and that's one of the best in the world.
The French news agency AFP is probably journalistically most credible source of news. I am partial on this because I read regularly their feed.
No, I did not.
I asked you to start another thread where you can talk about what you want to talk about.
Let me remind you what this thread is about:
'brexit-for-once-some-facts'
You build your arguments on your own assumptions, expect readers to agree with them and if they don't, you call them idiots.
It did not work on me, and BTW, your negative ratings on my posts do nothing to make your points any stronger.
Are you now saying that the majority of those who voted for 'Brexit' expressly for racist reasons - no more foreigners here - were conned?
The thickos knew nothing of international economics, trade deals or anything else but they were presented with an opportunity to stop foreigners being allowed entry to the UK and allied to the other big lie about funding our NHS, they went for it!
It is not right that the nation, half of whom want to remain in the EU, is being dragged towards oblivion based on lies and fabrications by snake oil merchants.
Tom