Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
While the 'leavers' are desperately trying to find the odd crumb of comfort from their tory idols' disintegrating post-'Brexit' scenario, the selfsame people in parliament are continuing with their attacks on the poor, the disabled and the rest of the decent members of society who must pay taxes under PAYE.
This is the kind of future that tories have wet dreams about.........
Tom
This is the kind of future that tories have wet dreams about.........
Tom
Try 'realistic' as the tories are driving the UK into the lead position in a race to the bottom but you probably can't see that.
Tom
let me ask you a personal question: do you get up in the morning to go to work? Do you have to provide for someone? If I had the same view of the country as you do, I'd stay in bed and wait for my time to leave this world because there is nothing worth to get up for is there?
It will have to stand in the queue behind the government!
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Until we get an FTA with the EU, the EU got us by the short and curlies.
we've got no choice but to cough up and accept their terms.
Still, the divorce bill and subsequent rental for the transitional arrangements Norway style are expected to be a bit cheaper than what we are paying now.
More of your imagination at work, especially the bit about immigration , if you imagine that is going down well, and I note you imagine that conservative rule is the only alternative to communism.
It is the destructive lies of the right wing that has brought us to this step backward, and they will suffer the consequences, as will the public.
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I've just been listening to an edition of "The Westminster Hour" and once again heard MPs saying that immigration was overwhelmingly the main issue voters brought up with them.
This confirms everything I've heard and experienced on the subject previously, and I think it cannot be denied as fact.
How much it will affect future feelings is debatable of course, but there's bound to be disappointment at least as it dawns that immigration will not be perceptibly changed by Brexit.
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Some people may think of freedom of movement as synonymous to 'free to abode' - All the tory government has to do is to explain to them what they can actually control, the tories will dress these things as 'victory' for regaining border control.
Things like insisting on the applicant having a job before issuing a national insurance number, health insurance cover when not in work, revoking their national insurance after losing their job, restricting some in-work benefits and out of work benefits. These things will reduce some immigration, coupled to lower growth limiting demand for immigrant workers, they will sure look like victory.
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No matter what people claim its purely speculation saying why people voted as they did, you would have to ask everyone and even then you might not know, but either way the fact that leaving still has massive support at a stage it seems immigration will alter little ( which I,d thought all the time) proves that even if immigration is an issue it certainly is not a major one, as claimed by remainers shouting racist. I,ve said from start immigration had nothing at all to do with my voting leave..( which I did, contrary to OG's ramblings)
Tom
You have still not offered an alternative to our government even though continually criticizing it..perhaps you,d prefer North Korea; Syria, USA or China..
No government is perfect b but ours is a damned site nearer than all rest..i
Tom
You have still not offered an alternative to our government even though continually criticizing it..perhaps you,d prefer North Korea; Syria, USA or China..
No government is perfect b but ours is a damned site nearer than all rest..i
I wouldn't disagree with most of this on a factual basis, but we are dealing with a public who often don't listen and tend to ignore facts. What has always influenced them far more on the immigration issue is what they see around them, and that will not perceptibly change.
There is no way they will see victory or accept any politician's word that victory has been achieved, their mistrust of politicians alone will ensure that negative outcome. In fact the public perception might be better if the politicians said nothing!
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On this you are completely wrong. Those who spent the most time interfacing with the public nationwide during the active referendum period and beyond have been quite emphatic about the dominance of immigration in voting intentions, and that remains true now.
The evidence is overwhelmingly in that direction and there hasn't been a shred of evidence that isn't true.
My reporting this isn't a claim of racism among voters, since most of their concern about immigration was clearly fear about issues voters believed legitimate. Namely the threat to jobs, housing, schools, transport and population density.
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the transitional arrangements have to have parliamentary approval, I don't think that one side won, the other lost. It will always be a compromise, acceptable to all sides.
On this thread, even from the early days, nobody on the brexit side made the case on immigration, only remainers use immigration as a stick to brand brexiters of xenophobia.
Can't you put forward a position 'flecc' without the need to bring up facts? You know it'll just confuse the 'leavers'. After all, this thread is about 'Brexit' - nothing else, just as it says in the title......oh, hang on!
Tom
can you present your arguments without adding an insult to the intelligence of people who don't agree with you?
BTW, as I understand it, flecc made his comment in relation to a specific fact
I would feel annoyed if someone generalized my comments the way you did to his.
Actually you stated on here that you didn't vote either way, but then who can trust anything you say
Your arguments are always specious, and this latest post is no different
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So why does it have policies that drive people to suicide, sell armaments to regimee with terrible human rights records and murder people with drones?
Come off it
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You, OG, and oldtom cannot bring yourselves to having a proper debate, still
resort to insults to make your arguments.
Do think of giving up the insults. It does not suit your education does it?
BTW, who is/are really 'the simply' here?