Brexit, for once some facts.

[OxygenJames]

.... means there will be little change in our future society.
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Flecc? Are you kidding? There will be little change? There will be both massive change - and no change. So you are right and wrong at the same time. The change? Oh there will be change. How can you think we are not going through some real change right now. Why do you think it hurts so much? Change hurts. I don't even know where to start with the changes that are coming. BUt the main one is always personal. Our bodies will eventually give out. We will simply start to fade away. Nobody wants to look at that. Me neither. But change? There will be change.

 

[flecc]

Flecc maybe we need to press re-set on our relationship. I do not intend such things as you think. I have no trouble with immigration or immigrants where they can integrate with certain basic characteristics. But some cultures think girls genitals are to be cut off. Really. This is a belief. They disregard the pain and the suffering. And others see women - still - as things they own. This is the problem I speak - not of international coffee shops and people being decent to eachother. It is all about such decency. And those that do not respect it - are not allowed in. Thats how I see it. Some cultures are not mixable.

First the most objectionable practices like FGM are very much minority issues that we deal with at law. And that discrimination against women is gradually disappearing in London as disadvantaged women take note of our acceptance of them as equals and take control accordingly.

Second, we have all the world's cultures in London including all 300 main languages, and live together ok. The cultures all mix sufficiently, but I don't expect than to mix totally into an old British culture, since that would be wrong for others. Individuality can be enjoyed and celebrated.
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[flecc]

Flecc? Are you kidding? There will be little change? There will be both massive change - and no change. So you are right and wrong at the same time. The change? Oh there will be change. How can you think we are not going through some real change right now. Why do you think it hurts so much? Change hurts. I don't even know where to start with the changes that are coming. BUt the main one is always personal. Our bodies will eventually give out. We will simply start to fade away. Nobody wants to look at that. Me neither. But change? There will be change.

I said little change in our society, nothing more. Of course there will be numerous other changes. But the ethnic and cultural mix that you seem unhappy with will persist now into permanence. In that respect there will never again be the Britain of the past that you preferred.
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[Woosh]

How many halal or kosher butchers, in all white neighbourhoods?

are we talking about the same immigrants?

 

[OxygenJames]

I said little change in our society, nothing more. Of course there will be numerous other changes. But the ethnic and cultural mix that you seem unhappy with will persist now into permanence. In that respect there will never again be the Britain of the past that you preferred.
.

What are you talking about? I never said I want a Britain of the past. There is no past. Its always conceptual. Sheesh. Basics people basics.

 

[tillson]

Flecc maybe we need to press re-set on our relationship. I do not intend such things as you think. I have no trouble with immigration or immigrants where they can integrate with certain basic characteristics. But some cultures think girls genitals are to be cut off. Really. This is a belief. They disregard the pain and the suffering. And others see women - still - as things they own. This is the problem I speak - not of international coffee shops and people being decent to eachother. It is all about such decency. And those that do not respect it - are not allowed in. Thats how I see it. Some cultures are not mixable.

Add the religious slaughter of animals to that. It needs stamping out immediately regardless of any "community issues." It has reached the stage now where the meat from un-stunned animals that have had their throats torn open by a maniac chanting garbage, is reaching the tables of normal people.

 

[flecc]

I never said I want a Britain of the past.

Really? You posted this:

"It was simply I remember so well back in 1993 and how terrible I felt back then. I was depressed for ages. How could he have signed that deal?"

So I presume you were happier before that, a quarter of a century ago. That's the past, a time long gone.
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[flecc]

Add the religious slaughter of animals to that. It needs stamping out immediately regardless of any "community issues." It has reached the stage now where the meat from un-stunned animals that have had their throats torn open by a maniac chanting garbage, is reaching the tables of normal people.

Fully agree, but the blame for that is on the Jewish community from very long ago, long before we had major immigration issues. Any chance that the UK will act against them in any way is minimal. Many Muslim authorities do accept reversible pre-stunning to render unconsciousness before throat cutting, but Jewish religious authorities refuse to accept it. They interpret "alive" as "awake".
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[oldgroaner]

Why are you sure we are stuck with it?
We have a vote, we can change things.

Hasn't anyone told you?
We haven't and we cant! and that is the problem surely?

 

[tillson]

Fully agree, but the blame for that is on the Jewish community from very long ago, long before we had major immigration issues. Any chance that the UK will act against them in any way is minimal. Many Muslim authorities do accept reversible pre-stunning to render unconsciousness before throat cutting, but Jewish religious authorities refuse to accept it. They interpret "alive" as "awake".
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Regardless of whether Jewish communities accept it or not, they should be told that it's stopping. There should be no acceptance element to the debate. It's a sickness.

I also think that it is wrong that meat produced in this barbaric way is not labelled in the supermarkets. It finds its way into the food chain of normal human beings. People who are repulsed by this depravity are unwittingly buying it.

 

[oldtom]

Go to Luton sometime. Go see for yourself how little of England is left in some places. Its not right. I am with Tommy Robbinson in this. You can call him and me a racist till the cows come home but I get where he is coming from. Parts of Luton you would not recognise as in this country if you were not aware of it.

Fair enough! You're a racist till the cows come home. You should have said right at the outset.

Fair play to you though; at least you have made it abundantly clear what your reason for wishing to secede is based on, unlike most of the other 'Brexidiots' who remain in denial.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

OK I hear that Dave. And I still don't believe you. I think your only actual interest in the contra view is to attempt to discredit it. You have made your mind up. As many others here have. So this is just really a pissing competition now. None of the people here is going to change their minds - surely you know that.

The argument for me was simple - taking back control. To me that made sense and still does. But for others here thats nonsense - and some may even be bothered to point out why. But to me it was great. That treaty Major signed back in 1993 - to me that was the start of the trouble. Up till then it had just been a trade deal - from that point on it changed - we basically started to move towards real integration - it was no longer about trade - it was about merging our laws - becoming a part of a federal Europe. How could we have let that happen!? Madness. Utter madness. We lost control over so so many things that I personally hold dear. But. To others for whatever reason that didn't matter. OK. Fair enough we're all entitled to an opinion. To me that was the main thing. I know for some it was about immigration - and I hear that too - the rate of immigration in some parts of the country has been WAY above what the local area can effectively integrate - way way WAY too high. And those localities feel it. So I get that. But that was not it for me. It was simply I remember so well back in 1993 and how terrible I felt back then. I was depressed for ages. How could he have signed that deal? From that moment on I was hoping one day we would be able to get out of that. And it looks - fingers crossed - like we will be able to. And sure there may be a cost - sure - it may cost something - we may have to take a hit. But. Personally I think it will be worth it.

A pretty Parochial view of longing for the past
Using that logic I should feel whistful for the Kingdom of Nothumbria, but then my eyes are in the front of my head and look to the future.
That future does not contain petty kingdoms and fear of change, as they srve only the Elites that can exploit them.
Where did you get this notion of loss of control? did you seriously imagine You personally had any? or that the local Politicians didn't control your lives for their personal advantage?
Despite their efforts while we were in the EU more sensible ideas seemed to be making headway, and now that is to go out of the window and a bunch of crooks who make the Mafia look akin to the Salvation Army are about to make the old saying "Never give a sucker an even Break" into Government Policy.
Congratulations, you are about to get the Government you deserve.
Pity the rest of us have to as well, let us hope this is only a fleeting affliction.

 

[oldgroaner]

Regardless of whether Jewish communities accept it or not, they should be told that it's stopping. There should be no acceptance element to the debate. It's a sickness.

I also think that it is wrong that meat produced in this barbaric way is not labelled in the supermarkets. It finds its way into the food chain of normal human beings. People who are repulsed by this depravity are unwittingly buying it.

Absolutely right tillson! this is Barbarism.

 

[Wicky]

Chocolate price hike if Brexit deal fails, warns Mars

Will the inevitable disintegrating Brexit economy be the cause of riots like when in Soviet Russia cigarette / alcohol / consumer shortages set off civil unrest.

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-08-26/news/mn-274_1_soviet-union

 

[flecc]

Regardless of whether Jewish communities accept it or not, they should be told that it's stopping. There should be no acceptance element to the debate.

I introduced this element since there appears to be a widespread tendency to blame the Islamic community who didn't introduce it to this country.

There is an acceptance element with them, the fact that many do accept electrostunning to unconsciousness. From our point of view that is no different from our UK practice of bolt stunning.

Islam can accept that method since the animal is still alive, though unconscious. With partial acceptance existing, I see that as a route to outlawing killing by bleeding conscious animals. That would be a big welfare improvement.
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[oldgroaner]

ry to take it away and you would release forces beyond your control. Thats not meant as a threat more a statement of the bleedin' obvious really.

No one is suggesting Brexit won't happen, but if you imagine that the vast majority of the supporters of Brexit will view "Taking a loss" with equanimity then you must have been born yesterday.
They are expecting "Big things" and if they don't get them, your pathetic " you would release forces beyond your control."
Will seem like a very empty threat indeed.
The fuse you have lit isn't attached to a cheap firework this time.
It won't be like the handful that turned for the protest Farage organised outside the law courts.

 

[flecc]

Chocolate price hike if Brexit deal fails, warns Mars

Of course, Mars fault for opening their largest factory at Veghel, The Netherlands and shifting the majority of production to there from their traditional home at Slough.

It's Cadburys all over again, and the prices of their products will rise too.
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[oldtom]

Absolutely right tillson! this is Barbarism.

It is a real shame that 'tillson' doesn't feel the same way about the mistreatment and abuse of human beings as he does about animals!

Tom

 

[tillson]

Of course, Mars fault for opening their largest factory at Veghel, The Netherlands and shifting the majority of production to there from their traditional home at Slough.

It's Cadburys all over again, and the prices of their products will rise too.
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This could help tackle the obesity time bomb ticking away within the UK's population.

 

[tillson]

It is a real shame that 'tillson' doesn't feel the same way about the mistreatment and abuse of human beings as he does about animals!

Tom

I might be completely wrong, but I'm starting to get the impression that you don't like me very much.