Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

'tillson', there is nothing wrong with my passage and, oddly, the test kit for bowel cancer arrived in the post today so in a few weeks' time, I shall hopefully have a letter from the NHS confirming that fact which I could copy to you if you wish.
Tom

Very sensible old tom. You must be over70? I think Toyota test their employees who are over 40 years old, Scotland over 50, Wales over 60 and good old England everyone over 70. My father missed out on the screening for some reason and it killed him.

I treated myself to a colonoscopy for my 50th birthday and have another due in a few weeks time. It's an insidious disease and usually only presents itself when it's pretty far gone. If it's at stage 1, and spotted during a colonoscopy, it's possible to rectify your rectum pretty easily.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The government are saying that we are short of money for schools,the NHS,Social Care and are desperate for the £170 million from NIC.
Nobody has mentioned how are we going to fund everything if Brexit is not a success,I suppose we will borrow more.
It was our decision to Brexit so we must not blame the EU if we are short of money afterwards,we only have ourselves to blame.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

Very sensible old tom. You must be over70? I think Toyota test their employees who are over 40 years old, Scotland over 50, Wales over 60 and good old England everyone over 70. My father missed out on the screening for some reason and it killed him.

I treated myself to a colonoscopy for my 50th birthday and have another due in a few weeks time. It's an insidious disease and usually only presents itself when it's pretty far gone. If it's at stage 1, and spotted during a colonoscopy, it's possible to rectify your rectum pretty easily.

This is one test I cannot take without triggering it, Radiotherapy after Prostate Cancer has left me with a semi permanant condition known as Radiation induced proctitis, which causes slight blood loss wih stools on an irregular basis, at first it was pretty much on a daily basis, but now in the sixth year it's down to somtimes once every three months, the Prognosis is that it will never entirely disappear, but come back to haunt me from time to time.
Just part of a very worthwhile trade off to continue to exist!
Being a pain in the proverbial is, in my case a privilege
If not for everyone else, for me at least!

 

[oldgroaner]

The government are saying that we are short of money for schools,the NHS,Social Care and are desperate for the £170 million from NIC.
Nobody has mentioned how are we going to fund everything if Brexit is not a success,I suppose we will borrow more.
It was our decision to Brexit so we must not blame the EU if we are short of money afterwards,we only have ourselves to blame.
KudosDave

No it wasn't OUR decision, it was a decision in an advisory Refrendum, nothing more than a Popularity Poll at best, yet we are stuck with it.

I utterly refute the notion that i had any part in approving this in principle, I will simply go along with the fact it will happen with every expectation that once the damage is felt it will be a case of how long it will take to get back into EU membership.

 

[oldtom]

Of all the countries one might consider unworthy of a British royal visit, evidently the royal family has decided to choose Israel this year. What could possibly be the motivation?

The final four paragraphs in the article are telling:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinian-campaign-israel-royal-visit-israel-netanyahu-israel-prince-charles-a7620251.html

Tom

 

[Woosh]

No it wasn't OUR decision.

You should perhaps direct your anger at the MPs. They are the ones that sign off A50.

it was a decision in an advisory Refrendum, nothing more than a Popularity Poll at best, yet we are stuck with it.

Why are you sure we are stuck with it?
We have a vote, we can change things.

 

[Kudoscycles]

You should perhaps direct your anger at the MPs. They are the ones that sign off A50.


Why are you sure we are stuck with it?
We have a vote, we can change things.

We are stuck with it until the next general election.
The Brexiters will throw their toys out of the pram if we don't Brexit but they won't have much patience after if it doesn't achieve what they want.
Tillson and Co don't know what they want,they know they won the vote but don't know what the end game is. I suspect Theresa May knows her idea of the end game?
Looking at this selfishly,I must say that all Hammonds decisions is strengthening larger businesses....my corporation taxes are yearly reducing,the business rates on my warehouse is lower,the possible deletion of Asian import tariffs......but as one of my senior guys pointed out,this is all very good if our customers continue to have the money to buy our products.
As the value of the Euro increases against the £,then we become more attractive to European buyers,it is ironic that just as we are to turn our backs on European business,UK to EU business is booming.
Strange world at the moment.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

As the value of the Euro increases against the £,then we become more attractive to European buyers,it is ironic that just as we are to turn our backs on European business,UK to EU business is booming.
Strange world at the moment.

that may restore the balance of trade with the EU.

 

[tillson]

We are stuck with it until the next general election.
The Brexiters will throw their toys out of the pram if we don't Brexit but they won't have much patience after if it doesn't achieve what they want.
Tillson and Co don't know what they want,they know they won the vote but don't know what the end game is. I suspect Theresa May knows her idea of the end game?
Looking at this selfishly,I must say that all Hammonds decisions is strengthening larger businesses....my corporation taxes are yearly reducing,the business rates on my warehouse is lower,the possible deletion of Asian import tariffs......but as one of my senior guys pointed out,this is all very good if our customers continue to have the money to buy our products.
As the value of the Euro increases against the £,then we become more attractive to European buyers,it is ironic that just as we are to turn our backs on European business,UK to EU business is booming.
Strange world at the moment.
KudosDave

I'm finding this too. I am picking up much more work in Germany and France since the value of the pound has dropped. It makes British services such as mine much more competitive.

 

[OxygenJames]

Sorry, only just spotted this and I think it deserves a reply.

Not sure how you can accuse me of being anti trade, seen as its what I've spent the last 20 years of my life doing.

My company has traded with the US, Asia, Australia and the EU, and I can assure you my pro EU stance is based on the ease of trading within it. Its not that I'm anti trade with the others. In fact I'm a bit shocked that some people seem to think the EU prevents us trading with others. It doesn't.

What makes you think I'm anti trade?

Because you're so negative about Brexit! Doh.

 

[oldtom]

This guy seems to have strong feelings on the matter:

https://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/videos/vb.228735667216/10154355857331200/?type=2&theater

Tom

 

[OxygenJames]

No I am genuinely interested in the contra view of Brexit,this forum is full of us Remoaners,nice to hear what pros we can look forward to....

OK I hear that Dave. And I still don't believe you. I think your only actual interest in the contra view is to attempt to discredit it. You have made your mind up. As many others here have. So this is just really a pissing competition now. None of the people here is going to change their minds - surely you know that.

The argument for me was simple - taking back control. To me that made sense and still does. But for others here thats nonsense - and some may even be bothered to point out why. But to me it was great. That treaty Major signed back in 1993 - to me that was the start of the trouble. Up till then it had just been a trade deal - from that point on it changed - we basically started to move towards real integration - it was no longer about trade - it was about merging our laws - becoming a part of a federal Europe. How could we have let that happen!? Madness. Utter madness. We lost control over so so many things that I personally hold dear. But. To others for whatever reason that didn't matter. OK. Fair enough we're all entitled to an opinion. To me that was the main thing. I know for some it was about immigration - and I hear that too - the rate of immigration in some parts of the country has been WAY above what the local area can effectively integrate - way way WAY too high. And those localities feel it. So I get that. But that was not it for me. It was simply I remember so well back in 1993 and how terrible I felt back then. I was depressed for ages. How could he have signed that deal? From that moment on I was hoping one day we would be able to get out of that. And it looks - fingers crossed - like we will be able to. And sure there may be a cost - sure - it may cost something - we may have to take a hit. But. Personally I think it will be worth it.

 

[flecc]

I'm finding this too. I am picking up much more work in Germany and France since the value of the pound has dropped. It makes British services such as mine much more competitive.

Underlines what I've already forecast, that we will need to get more competitive in order to survive. The bad news is that beyond the EU, we'll have to reward ourselves far less and work much harder to compete in the wider world.

So that means a much lower standard of living eventually post Brexit if we don't retain the EU trading that we currently enjoy. It's here that Theresa May's apparent acceptance of a hard Brexit possibility is so dangerous.
.

 

[Woosh]

some unintended consequences of hard brexit are we will be more competitive, restore budget balance etc.
it's crazy that the housing demand is so high that your house earns more than you and people spend half of their take home pay on rent or mortgage. So yes, I don't mind the so called 'cost of brexit' in the slightest.

 

[Wicky]

"the rate of immigration in some parts of the country has been WAY above what the local area can effectively integrate - way way WAY too high. And those localities feel it."

So why is socially deprived benefits hotspot Clacton-on-Sea with UKIP's only MP, have a white ethnicity of 97.3% (88.3% in England and Wales) with only 4.3% residents borne outside the UK (England & Wales 12.3%).

Did you think the Clacton residents voted in UKIP as protest against Tories (and other parties) ignoring their plight or are they blaming EU for the plight they are in?

How will 'taking back control' after Brexit and supposedly cutting immigration solve Clacton's problems?

Do you think there'll be an influx of American and Chinese tourists flooding into Clacton creating an economic boomtown?

 

[flecc]

So why is socially deprived benefits hotspot Clacton-on-Sea with UKIP's only MP, have a white ethnicity of 97.3% (88.3% in England and Wales) with only 4.3% residents borne outside the UK (England & Wales 12.3%).

Contrast that with London, by far the most economically successful part of the UK, where only 46% of the population are white British born.

Little wonder we voted to remain in the EU and couldn't care less about "taking control" and other such mythologies.
.

 

[Woosh]

Contrast that with London, by far the most economically successful part of the UK, where only 46% of the population are white British born.

I think people read this all wrong.
Successful cities attract immigrants who help them getting even more successful. Unsuccessful cities/towns attract fewer and definitely poorer, less talented immigrants, making them even worse off than before.
Clacton has a particularly amiable MP, I suspect his personal attraction counts.

 

[tillson]

It's here that Theresa May's apparent acceptance of a hard Brexit possibility is so dangerous.

I think she is trying to place the notion into the minds of the EU that the UK intends leaving and if that means hard BREXIT, that is exactly what will happen. This will hurt both sides and I can't believe that either side want that, but she is sounding as though the UK are prepared to accept the hit.

Now contrast that stance against one of her publicly stating, whatever happens, we must retain access to the single market. The UK can't afford hard BREXIT because it will damage us severely. We are going to leave the EU, but its highly likely that we will be required to accept some pre-conditions in order to retain membership of the single market.

Which is the best place to start negotiations from? For example, you sometimes see people advertising second hand cars stating they want between say £4K and £5K. How much do you think they end up getting? Transpose the car scenario to the BREXIT negotiations and all that May is doing by all this hard BREXIT talk is saying it's £5K or nothing.

Personally, I don't think she will go for hard BREXIT, her masters won't allow it.

 

[Kudoscycles]

OK I hear that Dave. And I still don't believe you. I think your only actual interest in the contra view is to attempt to discredit it. You have made your mind up. As many others here have. So this is just really a pissing competition now. None of the people here is going to change their minds - surely you know that.

The argument for me was simple - taking back control. To me that made sense and still does. But for others here thats nonsense - and some may even be bothered to point out why. But to me it was great. That treaty Major signed back in 1993 - to me that was the start of the trouble. Up till then it had just been a trade deal - from that point on it changed - we basically started to move towards real integration - it was no longer about trade - it was about merging our laws - becoming a part of a federal Europe. How could we have let that happen!? Madness. Utter madness. We lost control over so so many things that I personally hold dear. But. To others for whatever reason that didn't matter. OK. Fair enough we're all entitled to an opinion. To me that was the main thing. I know for some it was about immigration - and I hear that too - the rate of immigration in some parts of the country has been WAY above what the local area can effectively integrate - way way WAY too high. And those localities feel it. So I get that. But that was not it for me. It was simply I remember so well back in 1993 and how terrible I felt back then. I was depressed for ages. How could he have signed that deal? From that moment on I was hoping one day we would be able to get out of that. And it looks - fingers crossed - like we will be able to. And sure there may be a cost - sure - it may cost something - we may have to take a hit. But. Personally I think it will be worth it.

Ok ,so taking back control was about control of immigration,do I read that correctly. But David Davis has already admitted that when we Brexit,to take advantage of his ideas post Brexit we are going to increase immigration,is that what Brexiters intended.
I also dont understand the bit about making our own laws,surely we do that already,our recent budget was us making our own financial decisions. Even the triggering of Art 50 involved a law of our decision,not the EU.
I have made up my mind because I think that Theresa May is working to a personal agenda,for her own ends,not the good of the country,that concerns me. If a moderate centre ground politician was directing Brexit I would be happier,but who knows where this lady is taking us.
So far it is benefiting the rich,which is not what man from Huddersfield intended,after Brexit it looks like more of the same.
Brexit ,I think,has made the EU members think about the expansion of EU powers,its a shame we have to exit to get others to think about it.....a European army doesnt seem a bad idea,if we are fighting a common enemy maybe we wont fight each other.
I will defintely get a European passport if the EU launches one.
THere I didnt slam your viewpoint just put my own.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

I think she is trying to place the notion into the minds of the EU that the UK intends leaving and if that means hard BREXIT, that is exactly what will happen. This will hurt both sides and I can't believe that either side want that, but she is sounding as though the UK are prepared to accept the hit.

Now contrast that stance against one of her publicly stating, whatever happens, we must retain access to the single market. The UK can't afford hard BREXIT because it will damage us severely. We are going to leave the EU, but its highly likely that we will be required to accept some pre-conditions in order to retain membership of the single market.

Which is the best place to start negotiations from? For example, you sometimes see people advertising second hand cars stating they want between say £4K and £5K. How much do you think they end up getting? Transpose the car scenario to the BREXIT negotiations and all that May is doing by all this hard BREXIT talk is saying it's £5K or nothing.

Personally, I don't think she will go for hard BREXIT, her masters won't allow it.

On this Tillson I am of completely the opposite view....

I thought,mid January,that she stated we are quitting the single market and quitting the customs union....Bertie O'Hearne,the ex Irish prime minister,stated the same on the TV today.
O'Hearne when asked whether to sort the Irish border problem Ireland would consider leaving the EU...his reply was that the Irish are often thought of as crazy but we are not stupid.
It is Theresa May's masters (Rees-Mogg,IDS,Redwood and Co) are the ones pushing for a hard Brexit,they wont let her go for a soft Brexit. The majority of the Tory party are impotent against the right wingers,not sure why? Perhaps they are frightened of looking like Labour,indecisive and disorganised,without an electable leader....they are conscious of keeping their seats and jobs,selfish and undemocratic interest.
KudosDave