Brexit, for once some facts.

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

The enlighten us with examples that the EU benefits a large number of small businesses that don't trade in other countries.

Ok, lets look at bike shops as an example. Even those who don't sell oversea's benefit in many ways.

Big shops can afford buying teams, Wiggle for instance have a team of buyers based full time in the Far East.

Being in the EU, allow UK bike shops to buy from suppliers across the continent. Economies of scale mean and competition mean that small bike shops can now easily buy from these suppliers in small quantities because shipping and trading with the the EU is so easy. It doesn't count as importing, so no paperwork, no delays etc etc. So even if they don't sell overseas everything they buy be it direct from EU suppliers or from companies like mine who buy from the EU, its cheaper and easier for them. 2 important benefits.

This means they can compete with the big guys, so benefiting small businesses.

a high % of bike shops also employ EU workers to fill positions because there are not enough decent mechanics in the UK. No admin needed.

European standards benefit out industry in many many ways.

The size of the EU protects and supports our UK brands against dumping of Chinese bikes into the UK. Do you think Brompton would be doing so well if it didn't have the EU protection of tariffs against China?

I could go on and on and on.

I have lost tenders before, stick to the reason I have given and don't try to link this example some personal issues - that is the kind of tactics that I will never use in a debate.
Competition is healthy but it comes at a cost. Are you going to argue with that too?

I'm sure you've lost tenders before, what I'm saying is don't blame the EU, because if you're doing that you're going to run out of an excuse in a couple of years when you loose future ones.

Of course it comes at a cost... its you who seem to have a problem with that cost and are trying to build a wall to protect yourself.

 

[Woosh]

Being in the EU, allow UK bike shops to buy from suppliers across the continent. Economies of scale mean and competition mean that small bike shops can now easily buy from these suppliers in small quantities because shipping and trading with the the EU is so easy. It doesn't count as importing, so no paperwork, no delays etc etc. So even if they don't sell overseas everything they buy be it direct from EU suppliers or from companies like mind who buy from the EU, its cheaper and easier for them. 2 important benefits.

Tell that to my friends who have to price match offers from amazon and ebayers.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Tell that to my friends who have to price match offers from amazon and ebayers.

you do realise many if not most of those people selling on Amazon and Ebay, are UK small businesses..... don't you?

And do you think leaving the EU is going to mean we leave Ebay and Amazon?

You really are doing nothing for the case of showing that people who voted leave knew what they were doing.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I think that Trump will do great things for the USA and repair much of the damage done by what's his name, who was the previous president. You know, the idiot that came here threatening the UK.

Does this sound like a threat? From the current team in the US.

A billionaire investor who said Brexit was “a God-given opportunity” to take trade from the UK has been confirmed as Donald Trump’s Commerce Secretary.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/wibur-ross-donald-trump-commerce-chief-brexit-god-given-opportunity-trade-uk-eu-europe-a7603861.html

 

[oldgroaner]

Growth usually comes from immigration. More people, more demand, more workers.
The sharper slope on the red curve is the result of pessimism before brexit, depressing the Pound, then after brexit, stability returns, causing stronger uplift due to pent up demand and delayed investments.
If the climate is less pessimistic, then the slope is flatter.
The cliff edge is mainly caused by sentiments.
The main thing is, the economy has such a large inertia, you can push it one way or the other but it will bounce back.

Er, using what mechanism? if you don't have the same services sector and the foreign owned manufacturing industries have jumped ship to the continent, then what?

 

[oldgroaner]

Does this sound like a threat? From the current team in the US.

A billionaire investor who said Brexit was “a God-given opportunity” to take trade from the UK has been confirmed as Donald Trump’s Commerce Secretary.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/wibur-ross-donald-trump-commerce-chief-brexit-god-given-opportunity-trade-uk-eu-europe-a7603861.html

Sounds more like a promise along the lines of "Never give a sucker an even break!"

 

[OxygenJames]

Ok, lets look at bike shops as an example. Even those who don't sell oversea's benefit in many ways.

Big shops can afford buying teams, Wiggle for instance have a team of buyers based full time in the Far East.

Being in the EU, allow UK bike shops to buy from suppliers across the continent. Economies of scale mean and competition mean that small bike shops can now easily buy from these suppliers in small quantities because shipping and trading with the the EU is so easy. It doesn't count as importing, so no paperwork, no delays etc etc. So even if they don't sell overseas everything they buy be it direct from EU suppliers or from companies like mine who buy from the EU, its cheaper and easier for them. 2 important benefits.

This means they can compete with the big guys, so benefiting small businesses.

a high % of bike shops also employ EU workers to fill positions because there are not enough decent mechanics in the UK. No admin needed.

European standards benefit out industry in many many ways.

The size of the EU protects and supports our UK brands against dumping of Chinese bikes into the UK. Do you think Brompton would be doing so well if it didn't have the EU protection of tariffs against China?

I could go on and on and on.




I'm sure you've lost tenders before, what I'm saying is don't blame the EU, because if you're doing that you're going to run out of an excuse in a couple of years when you loose future ones.

Of course it comes at a cost... its you who seem to have a problem with that cost and are trying to build a wall to protect yourself.

You think Tarrifs help us buy the right stuff? Oh ye of little faith.

The EU is like that nightmare girlfriend you will do anything to be rid of btw. I am SO happy we are getting out. Finally. God its been a long painful process.

 

[OxygenJames]

I think many US journalists would like the mood to change. Whether the mood has changed is another issue.

Well. All my Amercian friends (well that's not quite true. 12 of the 13 to be honest) - think Trump is doing just fine. As in he is doing exactly what he said he would do. Anybody listen to his speech last week? - talking about the movement against supra-national bodies and back to nation states? Nice. Liked that. Also liked May couple of weeks back saying 'if you're a citizen of the world you're a citizen of nowhere'. Right. Enough of this 'we're all alike' nonsense. We're NOT all alike. Enough of this being told how to think. Enough of being talked down to by people who think they know better. Darn I am so happy. Go Trump. Go Brexit. The worlds' a changin folks.

 

[flecc]

God its been a long painful process.

And it's going to get a lot more painful over the two years of negotiations.

I hope for your sake it doesn't becoming most painful of all after we exit, though I think it will.
.

 

[flecc]

Go Trump. Go Brexit. The worlds' a changin folks.

For the worse, much, much worse.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

Will of the people Sir!......not to mention, 'We won; you lost- get over it!'.....or 'Brexit means Brexit'.

So, that being the case, let's get on with the plan......oh, hang on!

Tom

The reason why so many of the 16m who lost keep moaning and complaining is that they're still riding their bikes with the stabilizers on. They have not yet had that moment when somebody said hey kid try it without the stabilizers. No! shouts the kid. I'll fall off! I need a plan! I need to know HOW it will work. And no amount of telling them to just go for it everything will be just fine - will make much of a difference. But. Remember this. Generally speaking its people from within the 17.4m who will be running things from now. Well at least until the others catch up. If they ever do.

 

[OxygenJames]

The Sun is having a go at the Telegraph

The Telegraph reported that the PM was preparing to say that those who come to the UK after she triggered Article 50 could not have the automatic right to stay after Britain formally leaves the bloc.

The cut off date could be around March 15, once the Article 50 Bill which is currently in the Lords, goes through Parliament.

Figures in the EU have been pressuring the Prime Minister to delay the cut-off date until around 2019.
But there are fears that could spark a huge jump in the number of EU migrants coming to the UK before then.

Government figures have also considered suggestions that the cut-off date should be the referendum date last June, but lawyers feared this approach would be illegal.

But Downing Street played down the remarks about a cut-off point this morning.

A spokesperson said that the report was “speculation” and that no decisions had yet been made on a cut-off point.

Sounds like someone at the Telegraph got it "Bigly" wrong.
Imagine how this reflects on our bargaining position with the EU parliament, they must think they are dealing with Circus Clowns.

Its going to be almost impossible to mess up our bargaining position. Like almost impossible. Like we are in SUCH a strong position. Even that idiot Blair and side-kick Major can do little to mess this up. Our French and German friends have much more pressing matters to be concerned with right now. This is all going to turn out just fine boys and girls. Just you wait and see.

 

[flecc]

Remember this. Generally speaking its people from within the 17.4m who will be running things from now.

Like they did before we joined the EU, and what a disastrous long period of decline that was, losing all of our industry and much of our international commerce.

Soon you'll be able to watch the Little Englanders do the same all over again, assuming we do actually exit in the end.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

For the worse, much, much worse.
.

Oh ye of little faith. Flec come on. Cheer up. Trump is putting a crowbar to the EPA for goodness sake! How much good news can we take in 6 months? Clinton is not going to be in power - WHAT A RELIEF! Anybody but her. Sheesh. And we will no longer have to listen to some EU court telling us how to run our own country. AND we can decide who to let in through our borders! Whats not to like? Oh OK. You disagree. OK. go for it.

 

[Woosh]

you do realise many if not most of those people selling on Amazon and Ebay, are UK small businesses..... don't you?

And do you think leaving the EU is going to mean we leave Ebay and Amazon?

of course many of them are and amazon are here to stay but brexit will reduce competition from EU countries.

Are you disputing this as well?

 

[Woosh]

There are no words that adequately express much of the nonsense you post to this thread so I respond to silly, childish behaviour by calling it what it is, whether it comes from you or any other fantasist.

If you believe that I am the fantasist and you are the one who is factual then I think you are living in your own world.

 

[flecc]

Its going to be almost impossible to mess up our bargaining position. Like almost impossible. Like we are in SUCH a strong position.

Strong? Hardly, many of the EU countries have little to lose since they don't trade much with us. And Germany has said it can accept the loss of our market. We know that's true since they lost more in the 2008 recession and shrugged that off easily.

The 27 EU countries could walk out on us and individually suffer very little pain, but the pain we'd suffer from the loss of half all our trading and 80% of our very profitable services would be immense.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

Look I am not a Farage fan. Nor really a Trump fan (but God I did not like that Clinton woman). I am more of a Daniel Hannan fan - or a Tim Worstall fan - or a Ayann Hirshi Ali fan. I you get my drift. And I think this whole move away from supra-nationalism is good - independent states figuring things out - rather than trying to impose global rules. I like the way things are going. I am optimistic. I think the EU failure has been its almost complete inability to reform - and now it is paying the price. I see good things for us. Nobody can know for sure of course - but I feel good about this. And so far as I can make out I am in the majority - much to my surprise because I thought with the amount of negative press Brexit got from just about every 'expert' in town - we voted to leave. Amazing. Ditto with trump. Rock on. And to change the subject a little - isn't the weather getting better - that's more good news.

 

[flecc]

Oh ye of little faith. Flec come on. Cheer up. Trump is putting a crowbar to the EPA for goodness sake! How much good news can we take in 6 months? Clinton is not going to be in power - WHAT A RELIEF! Anybody but her. Sheesh. And we will no longer have to listen to some EU court telling us how to run our own country. AND we can decide who to let in through our borders! Whats not to like? Oh OK. You disagree. OK. go for it.

I agree that I wouldn't have liked Clinton either, as here, all the options were rubbish.

But the two EU courts have done nothing but good for us, putting right so many long term wrongs and I fear for the future without them.

And you shouldn't believe the lie that we couldn't control immigration. We always had that right, even with EU citizens, but our governments chose not to for economic reasons. The proof is that so much of the immigration wasn't from the EU.
.

 

[Woosh]

Er, using what mechanism? if you don't have the same services sector and the foreign owned manufacturing industries have jumped ship to the continent, then what?

Some sectors will be adversely affected before a deal with the EU is concluded but they will recover quickly after that. The consensus is brexit will be beneficial in the long term. You don't believe so? find an economist that does not believe that in 20 years time, the UK will do better outside the EU.