Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Trouble is we're all guilty of looking for evidence to prove ourselves right - building a case as the psychologists will tell you. So we ignore evidence that supports any counter view to our own. Like the whole global warming thing - watch what passes for evidence there and each side refusing to listen to anything that suggests the other side may have a point.

The only evidence I've offered is our proven poor past peformance, namely our continuous decline and comprehensive loss of industry and commerce from the end of WW2 until we joined the EU.

That's fact, showing how chilly it can be outside of the EU protected market.

What I cannot see is any evidence offered by the leave enthusiasts as to why it should be any different in future. All I get is wishful thinking and economists forecasts, as if they'd never been wrong.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I thought Nissan were too good to be true. They are now indicating that post Brexit they need to source more of their components from the UK,at the moment only 15% comes from the UK.
That sounds like good Brexit news.....except that Nissan want 140 million to expand the supply side. The downside if we leave the customs union then Nissan will move to a European base,I don't think May can stomach 7000 job losses on top of the 6000 Vauxhall workers.
Why would you build cars in the UK post Brexit unless you are bribed to do so.
KudosDave

 

[oldtom]

You want me to point you in the right direction? Try Tim Worstall. On twitter. And what he writes in his stuff at Forbes - but you can start with him on Twitter. Or the Adam Smith Institute. Follow them on Twitter. They're both way more clued up on the economics. And they are VERY for us leaving. Free trade and all that. Innovation.

Remember what Thatcher said 'Socialism is fine until you run out of other people's money'.

So, in a nutshell then, you have nothing concrete at all which might offer hope to the groups I mentioned. It's all just fantasy with a few economists' names thrown in to give the impression that you have superior knowledge of these matters.

In case you are unaware, no group of economists or bankers, bookmakers or weather forecasters will necessarily interpret data in a unanimous manner. The B of E monetary policy committee is a good example with frequent divisions in their number over whether to raise, lower or maintain the interest rate.

I mention that because you appear to imagine that those you recommend must be right yet others with whom you may disagree could prove to be the better forecasters.

After twelve and a half thousand posts, I had hoped by now to read some real, positive evidence in regard to the how, when and where of the many positive benefits leavers insist await the country post-'Brexit'.

You are just another in the list of disappointments to have visited this thread with nothing to offer those people frightened by the headlong rush to economic isolation that the extreme-right politicians have embarked the country on.

Tom

 

[OxygenJames]

........Come back Zatlan all is forgiven.
If you are stating something as a fact then you should either provide the evidence from your own studies ... Called original research, or you should provide references to the work of others eg websites. To do neither is negligence, hearsay and gossip .
And in case you want to complain about competence, I do have a physical sciences background.

OK. Well for now I'll stick with negligence, heresay and gossip. Just because it sounds more fun and I don't feel like playing by your rules. I think this is half of how come we voted Brexit and Trump got in - we're fed up of being told how to behave. So here's a few for starters. The changes in the climate are fine. Really. The rest is alarmist nonsense. Here's some more gossip on the lines - nobody cares anymore. About global warming. Its over. And the scientific community will pay big time in the future for the trust they betrayed. How am I doing? Hmmmm. Gossip? About the bears? Last I looked there was around 25,000 of the things. Which is up. They're fine. You can look it up if you like. Just let's get at the coal and get rid of the subsidies on solar and rock on with the driverless cars. Please.

 

[OxygenJames]

So, in a nutshell then, you have nothing concrete at all which might offer hope to the groups I mentioned. It's all just fantasy with a few economists' names thrown in to give the impression that you have superior knowledge of these matters.

In case you are unaware, no group of economists or bankers, bookmakers or weather forecasters will necessarily interpret data in a unanimous manner. The B of E monetary policy committee is a good example with frequent divisions in their number over whether to raise, lower or maintain the interest rate.

I mention that because you appear to imagine that those you recommend must be right yet others with whom you may disagree could prove to be the better forecasters.

After twelve and a half thousand posts, I had hoped by now to read some real, positive evidence in regard to the how, when and where of the many positive benefits leavers insist await the country post-'Brexit'.

You are just another in the list of disappointments to have visited this thread with nothing to offer those people frightened by the headlong rush to economic isolation that the extreme-right politicians have embarked the country on.

Tom

I am glad to meet your expectations of being a disappointment.

As for Brexit and Trump - we shall see.

 

[oldtom]

Here you are Tom - try this.

No thanks. I have previous experience of 'Forbes'......they didn't help much with my portfolio!

Have they made you a millionaire?

Tom

 

[oldtom]

OK. Well for now I'll stick with negligence, heresay and gossip. Just because it sounds more fun and I don't feel like playing by your rules. I think this is half of how come we voted Brexit and Trump got in - we're fed up of being told how to behave. So here's a few for starters. The changes in the climate are fine. Really. The rest is alarmist nonsense. Here's some more gossip on the lines - nobody cares anymore. About global warming. Its over. And the scientific community will pay big time in the future for the trust they betrayed. How am I doing? Hmmmm. Gossip? About the bears? Last I looked there was around 25,000 of the things. Which is up. They're fine. You can look it up if you like. Just let's get at the coal and get rid of the subsidies on solar and rock on with the driverless cars. Please.

I think I need a few grams of what you're on! What do the colours sound like?

Tom

 

[tillson]

It was abundantly clear that I used that Ford example as an illustration that it was easy to move a large car plant. To make it even clearer I gave the separate reasons why Nissan et al might move, which would be due to Brexit.
.

I understand that. But if we were to remain in the EU, it gives us no guarantee that manufacturing jobs will stay in the UK. We have seen them move to cheaper labour cost areas within the EU whilst being members.

To say that BREXIT will result in job loses may be true, but evidence shows that job losses also occur whilst being a member of the EU. Membership means nothing in this regard.

 

[flecc]

The changes in the climate are fine. Really. The rest is alarmist nonsense. Here's some more gossip on the lines - nobody cares anymore. About global warming. Its over. And the scientific community will pay big time in the future for the trust they betrayed. How am I doing? Hmmmm. Gossip? About the bears? Last I looked there was around 25,000 of the things. Which is up. They're fine. You can look it up if you like. Just let's get at the coal and get rid of the subsidies on solar and rock on with the driverless cars. Please.

Why not, stuff the future, we won't be the ones suffering it, so why should we care.

I'm like that with Brexit, whatever effect it has will take a long time to appear and put any suffering that might result beyond my experience, since I'm in my 81st year. That makes my interest in the subject academic.
.

 

[oldtom]

No sooner do we get rid of a troll who loved to namedrop his pet economists than another poster turns up doing the same thing!

How weird is that?

Tom

 

[flecc]

I understand that. But if we were to remain in the EU, it gives us no guarantee that manufacturing jobs will stay in the UK. We have seen them move to cheaper labour cost areas within the EU whilst being members.

To say that BREXIT will result in job loses may be true, but evidence shows that job losses also occur whilst being a member of the EU. Membership means nothing in this regard.

I agree, but there's little pressure on such as Nissan to move while in the EU. They came here for big startup subsidies and have a government very favourable to them, just the sort of environment companies like. The border consequences of Brexit could dramatically change that status.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

I have previous experience of 'Forbes'.

Tom

You wanna talk electric bikes instead Tom? This talking politics is not doing our relationship much good is it?

I saw a complete carbon fibre Haibike not long ago.... wow. Some bike. Not sure I want to spend that much though. My bike cost enough as it was - though I still think its amazing.

 

[OxygenJames]

I think I need a few grams of what you're on! What do the colours sound like?

Tom

Colours are good Tom. Oxygen levels are good too. Gravity is working well. So long as those latter two are within spec I tend to count my blessings.

 

[oldtom]

I understand that. But if we were to remain in the EU, it gives us no guarantee that manufacturing jobs will stay in the UK. We have seen them move to cheaper labour cost areas within the EU whilst being members.

To say that BREXIT will result in job loses may be true, but evidence shows that job losses also occur whilst being a member of the EU. Membership means nothing in this regard.

You're scraping the bottom of the barrel now 'tillson'. You really haven't grasped the bigger picture with the EU, have you? No matter how vehemently you might wish to protest, the sad fact is that the UK is no longer equipped to compete single-handedly in the global marketplace.

We no longer rule the waves and our days of empire are over. All the jingoism in the world cannot alter the fact that the world has changed and we are stuck in the mid-20th century with a bad attitude towards other races and creeds. The arrogance and conceit we display, even from the PM, has not gone unnoticed by at least 27 other sovereign nation states and probably many more countries too.

All 'leavers' are really out on a limb now, hoping and praying for some kind of miracle which might help avoid the cumuppance likely to befall us in the brave, new post-'Brexit' Shangi-La predicted.

Tom

 

[Danidl]

No sooner do we get rid of a troll who loved to namedrop his pet economists than another poster turns up doing the same thing!
How weird is that?

Tom

... Is it like buses ? I am prepared to give a person the benefit of the doubt few times, but I will not be responding to any further comments from the person whose current title is OJ. I will just enjoy my pancakes and contemplate the foolishness of the human species.

 

[oldtom]

You wanna talk electric bikes instead Tom? This talking politics is not doing our relationship much good is it?

I saw a complete carbon fibre Haibike not long ago.... wow. Some bike. Not sure I want to spend that much though. My bike cost enough as it was - though I still think its amazing.

No thanks; that's a bit off-topic for this particular place.

It's mildly interesting that we seem to have been deserted by Wayne Kerr, the local troll, then suddenly you pop up sharing similar traits. You're not his brother Plon, are you?

Tom

 

[OxygenJames]

No sooner do we get rid of a troll who loved to namedrop his pet economists than another poster turns up doing the same thing!

How weird is that?

Tom

Zatlan just phoned me and tried to convince me that you're really a very cuddly guy Tom. I said surely not how can that be he seems to be another one of these left-wing virtue-signalling zombies! But he said no give him a chance he's really a good guy. What a thing.

 

[OxygenJames]

No thanks; that's a bit off-topic for this particular place.

It's mildly interesting that we seem to have been deserted by Wayne Kerr, the local troll, then suddenly you pop up sharing similar traits. You're not his brother Plon, are you?

Tom

This really isn't going well.

 

[OxygenJames]

... Is it like buses ? I am prepared to give a person the benefit of the doubt few times, but I will not be responding to any further comments from the person whose current title is OJ. I will just enjoy my pancakes and contemplate the foolishness of the human species.

Oh dear. David is taking his ball and going home.

 

[OxygenJames]

You're scraping the bottom of the barrel now 'tillson'. You really haven't grasped the bigger picture with the EU, have you? No matter how vehemently you might wish to protest, the sad fact is that the UK is no longer equipped to compete single-handedly in the global marketplace.

We no longer rule the waves and our days of empire are over. All the jingoism in the world cannot alter the fact that the world has changed and we are stuck in the mid-20th century with a bad attitude towards other races and creeds. The arrogance and conceit we display, even from the PM, has not gone unnoticed by at least 27 other sovereign nation states and probably many more countries too.

All 'leavers' are really out on a limb now, hoping and praying for some kind of miracle which might help avoid the cumuppance likely to befall us in the brave, new post-'Brexit' Shangi-La predicted.

Tom

Arrogance and conceit'? Maybe take a look in the mirror sometime.