Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

With both examples it's not how presentation is made its the facts behind it.
Over 80% of folk in ICU in Liverpool are young (ish) and not vaccinated.
It is not propoganda. It's meant to push the message. There is a difference.

Wrong, look at the the headline:

"Distressing footage shows ICU full of young unvaccinated - -"

THAT IS A LIE.

The footage doesnt show a single young patient, just heavily fuzzed blobs who could be any age. The only thing missing from the mournful spoken sound track was the violin wailing in c minor in the background.

Be a manipulated mug if you wish, I wont be.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Wrong, look at the the headline:

"Distressing footage shows ICU full of young unvaccinated - -"

THAT IS A LIE.

The footage doesnt show a single young patient, just heavily fuzzed blobs who could be any age. The only thing missing from the mournful spoken sound track was the violin wailing in c minor in the background.

Be a manipulated mug if you wish, I wont be.
.

The mugs are the unvaccinated. You had yours.
Think you keep looking down the Rabbit hole Flecc, GI and SW are well down it and not climbing out.

 

[guerney]

Well, getting boosted didn't take long - it turned out to be a minimal waste of energy slow jogging downhill for the first part of the journey, because I arrived at the vaccination centre 13 minutes early. Rather than inhabit a dangerous shared enclosed volume of air waiting indoors, I loitered in the car park vaping furiously till a bemasked doctor rocked out of his parked Audi SUV and said “You can't smoke here!", whereupon I pointed out the absence of signs stating such, which prompted him to indicate the gated perimeter beyond which I could continue vaping, at which point I ceased vaping. I had chosen the 24th December, hoping it’d be empty - there were only three staff and no injectees in the entire vaccination centre – the Pfizer dose looked smaller than the Az. After gaining function, I was told to catch Omicron waiting in an empty seated area for "A few minutes”, but I fled escaping with my present state of ill health unchanged. I haven't experienced any side effects yet, but Windows 10 has automatically updated itself to 11, and I very much look forward to growing horns.

 

[oyster]

The government appears dead set on following a propagandistic approach:

Government plans UK-wide Covid booster alert to mobile phones
Exclusive: major network operators asked to send Boxing Day message despite fears of anti-vaxxer backlash

Government to send UK-wide Covid booster alert to mobile phones

Exclusive: major network operators asked to send Boxing Day message despite fears of anti-vaxxer backlash

www.theguardian.com

This also treads on a lot of toes - why is the English NHS sending SMS messages to phones in the other nations?

Even if a push were deemed desirable, I see this as own-goal time.

 

[soundwave]

The government appears dead set on following a propagandistic approach:

Government plans UK-wide Covid booster alert to mobile phones
Exclusive: major network operators asked to send Boxing Day message despite fears of anti-vaxxer backlash

Government to send UK-wide Covid booster alert to mobile phones

Exclusive: major network operators asked to send Boxing Day message despite fears of anti-vaxxer backlash

www.theguardian.com

This also treads on a lot of toes - why is the English NHS sending SMS messages to phones in the other nations?

Even if a push were deemed desirable, I see this as own-goal time.

they did that to me at the start as must have got my number from the nhs to get a jab and was sending them near every day so i binned the sim and got a new one problem solved

 

[guerney]

The government appears dead set on following a propagandistic approach:

Government plans UK-wide Covid booster alert to mobile phones
Exclusive: major network operators asked to send Boxing Day message despite fears of anti-vaxxer backlash

Government to send UK-wide Covid booster alert to mobile phones

Exclusive: major network operators asked to send Boxing Day message despite fears of anti-vaxxer backlash

www.theguardian.com

This also treads on a lot of toes - why is the English NHS sending SMS messages to phones in the other nations?

Even if a push were deemed desirable, I see this as own-goal time.

If the networks are doing it for free, they'll undoubtedly exploit some additional tax dodge through accounting voodoo.

 

[guerney]

It's windsurfing, so do spend lots of time in water.... And use lots of meat pies.

I almost bought fish and chips on the way back from getting my vaxx boosted, but the chippy was another mile uphill. I'll hope to accrue enough health capital through the application of beans, to enable much liberal consumption of meat pies, roasts and pizza again. Another 1.5 stones to lose...

 

[flecc]

The mugs are the unvaccinated.

That is what you've been told, so you repeat it.

Remember that last year we had no vaccines so everyone was unvaccinated. Well over 97% didn't suffer from Covid and didn't go into ICU, yet the experts told is that at least 25% of us in London had contracted Covid, with some saying 50% more likely.

And here in London with by far the highest infection rates, we ended up with less deaths than the rest of the country by a staggering 19.8%.

Those infection rates gave us that immunity last year, and continue to this year, not the vaccines since we have the lowest vaccine take up in the country.

So we have 2.4 millions healthily walking around who've accepted no vaccines at all, another million with only the first jab so now also totally unprotected by vaccine, yet you term all 3.4 million of them mugs.

How can they be when they are 36% of all Londoners and there are only 1560 critical care beds in London for their 3.4 millions. That's 2179 per critical care bed.

You see, I deal in facts, not government propaganda.

This government has made an almighty mess of virtually everything, so much so that it stands or falls on one thing, the vaccines.

So the truth that we'd have done just fine without any of the vaccines terrifies them so much that they will stop at nothing to hide it. That is why they belatedly fiddled the 2020 deaths total by making it deaths within 60 days of a positive test rather than the 28 days for 2021, to hide the fact that there were more deaths with vaccines than without.
.

 

[Zlatan]

That is what you've been told, so you repeat it.

Remember that last year we had no vaccines so everyone was unvaccinated. Well over 97% didn't suffer from Covid and didn't go into ICU, yet the experts told is that at least 25% of us in London had contracted Covid, with some saying 50% more likely.

And here in London with by far the highest infection rates, we ended up with less deaths than the rest of the country by a staggering 19.8%.

Those infection rates gave us that immunity last year, and continue to this year, not the vaccines since we have the lowest vaccine take up in the country.

So we have 2.4 millions healthily walking around who've accepted no vaccines at all, another million with only the first jab so now also totally unprotected by vaccine, yet you term all 3.4 million of them mugs.

How can they be when they are 36% of all Londoners and there are only 1560 critical care beds in London for their 3.4 millions. That's 2179 per critical care bed.

You see, I deal in facts, not government propaganda.

This government has made an almighty mess of virtually everything, so much so that it stands or falls on one thing, the vaccines.

So the truth that we'd have done just fine without any of the vaccines terrifies them so much that they will stop at nothing to hide it. That is why they belatedly fiddled the 2020 deaths total by making it deaths within 60 days of a positive test rather than the 28 days for 2021, to hide the fact that there were more deaths with vaccines than without.
.

Sorry Flecc you are completely ignoring all the data from hospital ICUs and vaccination rates to make your point. You are wrong.
Tell me one single shred of evidence that points to the fact unvaccinated are rolling up in ICUs at roughly times 8 the rate to vaccinated is down to prior infection or luck???
You can't, because there isn't any. And you do exactly what anti vaxxers do when presented with evidence. Ignore it and shout mug at others for believing mentioned evidence.
NHS, ONS, JCVI, individual primary care authorities, surgeons, consultants, doctors and nurses are all telling you the unvaccinated are ending up in ICUs, obviously not all of them but way way more than the vaccinated. Ignoring that fact just makes you look silly and holding a conversation with you pointless. The facts around ICU occupation speak for themselves.

Doctor dismantles typical COVID vaccine hesitancy arguments by putting forward alternative scenario

Dr Ed Patrick said that for those who don't want the vaccine put in their body, they will need a "cocktail of drugs" when they come into hospital with all kinds of side effects.

news.sky.com

Explain this doctors requests Flecc. Probably part of the grand new order. I think you are well down the rabbit hole.

 

[soundwave]

7.Pre-existing conditions of people whose death was due to COVID-19, deaths registered in July to September 2021
In this section we use the multiple health conditions that can be recorded on a death certificate to identify deaths where there were pre-existing health conditions that contributed to the cause of death where death was due to coronavirus (COVID-19). Health conditions are recorded on the death certificate only if the certifying doctor or coroner believed they made some contribution to the death, direct or indirect. The death certificate does not include all health conditions from which the deceased might have suffered if they were not considered relevant. However, the fact that a pre-existing condition was recorded does not suggest that the deceased was likely to have died from that condition in the absence of the COVID-19 infection.

This section analyses data from Quarter 3 (July to Sept) of 2021, whereas the rest of the bulletin analyses data up to November.

This analysis of pre-existing conditions covers England and Wales as a whole only because of the small number of deaths due to COVID-19 in Wales in Quarter 3 2021 (358 deaths due to COVID-19).

Overall patterns of pre-existing conditions for COVID-19 deaths in Quarter 3 were similar to Quarter 2 (Apr to June) of 2021. Diabetes remained the most common pre-existing condition of deaths due to COVID-19 (22.5%), followed by chronic lower respiratory diseases which were second most common at 19.4% (up from third most common in Quarter 2 at 15.3%).

In Quarter 3, the total number of deaths due to COVID-19 in England and Wales increased to 6,572 deaths (from 1,838 deaths in Quarter 2). However, the proportion of COVID-19 deaths for each age group remained similar. Those aged between 0 and 64 years accounted for 24.2% of all COVID-19 deaths in Quarter 3 (compared with 26.3% in Quarter 2) and those aged 65 years and over accounted for 75.8% of all COVID-19 deaths (compared with 73.7% in Quarter 2). Overall, the proportion of COVID-19 deaths with no pre-existing conditions remained similar in Quarter 3 (17.4%) to Quarter 2 (18.8%) (see Table 2 in the dataset). Likewise, the average number of different pre-existing conditions per COVID-19 death remained similar between these two periods (1.9 and 2.0 pre-existing conditions on average in Quarter 3 and Quarter 2 respectively).

In Quarter 3, diabetes remained the most common pre-existing condition for deaths due to COVID-19 occurring in hospitals (24.8%, down slightly from 25.9% in Quarter 2). Dementia and Alzheimer's disease also remained the most common pre-existing condition for deaths occurring in care homes (46.3%), the largest increase in comparison with Quarter 2 (25.3%).

The proportion of COVID-19 deaths occurring in private homes with diabetes as a pre-existing condition decreased to 14.6% (from 19.2% in Quarter 2). Despite this, diabetes returned to being the most common pre-existing condition for COVID-19 deaths in private homes, after dropping to second most common in Quarter 2. Chronic lower respiratory diseases were the second most common pre-existing condition for COVID-19 deaths in private homes at 13.7% (from 11.6% in Quarter 2 where it was fourth most common). The proportion of deaths due to COVID-19 in private homes with hypertensive diseases as a pre-existing condition, dropped from most common in Quarter 2 (20.8%) to fifth most common in Quarter 3 (9.1%).

Monthly mortality analysis, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Provisional death registration data for England and Wales, broken down by sex, age and country. Includes deaths due to coronavirus (COVID-19) and leading causes of death.

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[soundwave]

 

[flecc]

Sorry Flecc you are completely ignoring all the data from hospital ICUs and vaccination rates to make your point. You are wrong.
Tell me one single shred of evidence that points to the fact unvaccinated are rolling up in ICUs at roughly times 8 the rate to vaccinated is down to prior infection or luck???
You can't, because there isn't any. And you do exactly what anti vaxxers do when presented with evidence. Ignore it.

No, you've shown me no verifiable facts, I have only shown you verifiable ones from government's own data.

The link below tells you all you need to know about the two Covid years, showing clearly how a massive infection rate five times that of the rest of the country doesn't lead to high hospitalisation or a high death rate. In fact both are lower thanks to their huge prior infection in early 2020, not the vaccines at that very low takeup and which didn't even arrive until a year later:

Data post
.

 

[oldgroaner]

A mate had one - Ultrasonic waves failed to break it up (if that had worked, the fragments would have been extremely painful to push through his penis, as they passed through with urine. Some maintain it's the closest that a man can experience to the pain of giving birth), but the orally administered chemicals did. In his case, he didn't require keyhole surgery, which the NHS do while the patient is faced down, placing much pressure on the chest area... good job too, as he has an iffy ticker. You have to go private if you want to have your kidney keyholed, while facing up. Things at the NHS might have changed since, 'twas a few years ago.

I had number of kidney stones and five years ago started passing blood and thus was treated to endoscopy with something resembling a fire hose (at least it felt about that big! or perhaps it was a rag man's rusty trumpet )
End result five in one kidney 2 in the other
"Do you want the good news first?" asked the specialist
"Five in one kidney are small enough and should pass (with any luck) and one of the two in the other kidney is the same"
"However the other one is 27mm!" let's try Lithotripsy first.
Lying in a pool of warm water in a sort of see through hammock wasn't so bad, and the treatment wasn't painful a sort of rapid thudding in various positions for about 40 minutes.
It was successful , however passing the shovel full of broken pieces of what felt like glass and blood was no fun.
Next day I was back in the hospital as the internal bruising made itself felt.
I have passed some of the remaining stones and not really looking forward to any still lurking there in the internal plumbing.

 

[guerney]

Why didn't the nurse swab the booster injection site before and afterwards? I've just gone over it with a bit of 99% isopropyl... no sense in getting a bacterial infection, which could be mistaken for a mild ADR.

 

[Danidl]

With both examples it's not how presentation is made its the facts behind it.
Over 80% of folk in ICU in Liverpool are young (ish) and not vaccinated.
It is not propoganda. It's meant to push the message. There is a difference.

Well that is what propaganda actually is. Propaganda need not be lies.

 

[guerney]

I had number of kidney stones and five years ago started passing blood and thus was treated to endoscopy with something resembling a fire hose (at least it felt about that big! or perhaps it was a rag man's rusty trumpet )
End result five in one kidney 2 in the other
"Do you want the good news first?" asked the specialist
"Five in one kidney are small enough and should pass (with any luck) and one of the two in the other kidney is the same"
"However the other one is 27mm!" let's try Lithotripsy first.
Lying in a pool of warm water in a sort of see through hammock wasn't so bad, and the treatment wasn't painful a sort of rapid thudding in various positions for about 40 minutes.
It was successful , however passing the shovel full of broken pieces of what felt like glass and blood was no fun.
Next day I was back in the hospital as the internal bruising made itself felt.
I have passed some of the remaining stones and not really looking forward to any still lurking there in the internal plumbing.

 

[guerney]

I had number of kidney stones and five years ago started passing blood and thus was treated to endoscopy with something resembling a fire hose (at least it felt about that big! or perhaps it was a rag man's rusty trumpet )
End result five in one kidney 2 in the other
"Do you want the good news first?" asked the specialist
"Five in one kidney are small enough and should pass (with any luck) and one of the two in the other kidney is the same"
"However the other one is 27mm!" let's try Lithotripsy first.
Lying in a pool of warm water in a sort of see through hammock wasn't so bad, and the treatment wasn't painful a sort of rapid thudding in various positions for about 40 minutes.
It was successful , however passing the shovel full of broken pieces of what felt like glass and blood was no fun.
Next day I was back in the hospital as the internal bruising made itself felt.
I have passed some of the remaining stones and not really looking forward to any still lurking there in the internal plumbing.

My mate also tried the 30 lemon juice method, to attempt dissolving of the stones; it's unclear if that worked, because he tried it at the same time as the medication. He'd seen the lemon juice kidney stone dissolving method on Youtube, uploaded by Americans desperate to avoid very expensive hospital bills.

 

[Danidl]

No, you've shown me no verifiable facts, I have only shown you verifiable ones from government's own data.

The link below tells you all you need to know about the two Covid years, showing clearly how a massive infection rate five times that of the rest of the country doesn't lead to high hospitalisation or a high death rate. In fact both are lower thanks to their huge prior infection in early 2020, not the vaccines at that very low takeup and which didn't even arrive until a year later:

Data post
.

Flecc... The verified facts are in the tables as presented by our unlikely source GIJoe. .. See his table ..about 3 pages back showing the ratio of hospitalised over the last numbers of months in the UK as a function of vaccine status and compared to general population data.
I have remained sceptical about any of these surveys based on assumed calculated infection rates , and see only PCR tests on ill patients as proper evidence of infection. Now there is a very high correlation between LFTs as carried out by a person self selecting to do a test, and proving positive and a subsequent PCR... But I don't see supporting evidence for other scenario's. I remain puzzled by the insistence of the British Authorities to continue to use a 28 day rule.
What your comparison between last and this year is missing is that current infections are 1200 to 2400 times more virulent. But hospital admissions are not commensurate with this. Even a single jab , from 9 months ago provides a level of protection, the double jab more and the treble jab more still, and of course those who have had a full blown infection have at least as much protection as a single jab.

 

[flecc]

Why didn't the nurse swab the booster injection site before and afterwards? I've just gone over it with a bit of 99% isopropyl... no sense in getting a bacterial infection, which could be mistaken for a mild ADR.

Guerney won't see this reply, but for others interest none of my three Covid jabs included swabbing and neither did my 'flu jab.

It seems to have gone out of fashion.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Well that is what propaganda actually is. Propaganda need not be lies.

Again we are discussing semantics and the inferences made in portraying the facts.
Liverpool Primary care on dates in question had no vaccinated in ICU wards but was 70% full with unvaccinated,majority of whom were in age range 30 to 40.
Wether putting that over is propoganda or not is irrelevant. If their circumstances are not seen as evidence of what vaccines are doing you must either believe Liverpool Primary care have engineered situation or they are lying.. Neither of which I see as realistic. Especially so when that scenerio, probably to a less marked degree, is repeated in at least 12 other primary care authorities throughout England. (BBC had contacted 16,12 had replied, Liverpool was one of them)
Why folk who pretend to support the vaccine do not see this as important is beyond me. It's one of the most stark examples of vaccine effect we could see.
Vaccinated were (in Authorities who replied) 10 times less likely to roll up in ICU.
Why is that not evidence of a positive affect of vaccines? Yes, in some individual cases perhaps but the trend and pattern is confirmed. Having the vaccine or antigen, call it what you like, does lower your chances of ending up in ICU by a very large factor.
That is beyond doubt.