Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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My mate also tried the 30 lemon juice method, to attempt dissolving of the stones; it's unclear if that worked, because he tried it at the same time as the medication. He'd seen the lemon juice kidney stone dissolving method on Youtube, uploaded by Americans desperate to avoid very expensive hospital bills.
Did it work?
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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What your comparison between last and this year is missing is that current infections are 1200 to 2400 times more virulent.
It's not missing, since as you describe, it's the nature of the beast so inherent in my posted data and why I've agreed your post.

My argument with Zlatan is political in nature since he is doing anything both possible and impossible to defend this current UK government's vaccination policies with all its errors.

The inexplicable 28 day one for example, and the wilfully dishonest alteration of the 2020 data to 60 days since a positive test, presumably to increase the number of deaths in 2020 when compared to 2021.

I actually have sympathy for the government and the predicament it's in, but I do wish they would be both more honest and very much more consistent instead of flailing about in all directions with ever changing policies.
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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Did it work?
He didn't know if it worked, because he was also taking pills to dissolve it, at the same time as swilling the extremely bitter tasting juice of 30 whole lemons. The whole lemons were juiced using an electric vegetable juicer. It wasn't just a matter of a quick squeeze of lemon halves, although some people also seem to advocate that too. This is the sort of thing (cranberry and apple vinegar vids are also available):

 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Why didn't the nurse swab the booster injection site before and afterwards? I've just gone over it with a bit of 99% isopropyl... no sense in getting a bacterial infection, which could be mistaken for a mild ADR.
The desirability of swabbing with alcohol or any other disinfectant has been questioned. Quite a bit of research has been done.

Although there are still questions, and not everyone is convinced that it is sufficient in all circumstances, it is common not to swab at all.

Do bear in mind there are questions over the possible effect of the disinfectant substance used on the skin, its healing and on the injectant.

I know of many who regularly self-inject, even every day, for B12 deficiency who never swab.
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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The desirability of swabbing with alcohol or any other disinfectant has been questioned. Quite a bit of research has been done.

Although there are still questions, and not everyone is convinced that it is sufficient in all circumstances, it is common not to swab at all.

Do bear in mind there are questions over the possible effect of the disinfectant substance used on the skin, its healing and on the injectant.

I know of many who regularly self-inject, even every day, for B12 deficiency who never swab.
Good to know. I'm a very a very dirty person in general, my instinct is to always swab. Bloody gardening... :rolleyes:
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Flecc... The verified facts are in the tables as presented by our unlikely source GIJoe. .. See his table ..about 3 pages back showing the ratio of hospitalised over the last numbers of months in the UK as a function of vaccine status and compared to general population data.
I have remained sceptical about any of these surveys based on assumed calculated infection rates , and see only PCR tests on ill patients as proper evidence of infection. Now there is a very high correlation between LFTs as carried out by a person self selecting to do a test, and proving positive and a subsequent PCR... But I don't see supporting evidence for other scenario's. I remain puzzled by the insistence of the British Authorities to continue to use a 28 day rule.
What your comparison between last and this year is missing is that current infections are 1200 to 2400 times more virulent. But hospital admissions are not commensurate with this. Even a single jab , from 9 months ago provides a level of protection, the double jab more and the treble jab more still, and of course those who have had a full blown infection have at least as much protection as a single jab.
How on earth has Flecc agreed with this? Its a confirmation of what vaccine is doing Flecc. Did you hit the wrong button by mistake?, Or, have you changed your mind and decided vaccines (antigens) are working??
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Liverpool Primary care on dates in question had no vaccinated in ICU wards but was 70% full with unvaccinated,majority of whom were in age range 30 to 40.
And you believe that?

Why not say which hospital by name?

How large do you think their total ICU bed capacity is? If it's true then why not the actual number and proportion of 20 to 40?

And why uniquely fuzzy out so severely all the images when that has never been done before? We've all seen numerous ICU videoing of oxygen masked or ventilated patients not fuzzed at all.

I'll tell you why, it's a constructed lie.
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soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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Some patients are likely to spend Christmas day in hospital with the virus as Covid-19 cases continue to surge across Gloucestershire,

At the time of writing (December 24), there were 72 patients in hospital with coronavirus across the Gloucestershire Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust - covering Gloucestershire Royal Hospital and Cheltenham General Hospital.

Positively, none of these patients required a mechanical ventilator to breathe.


  • The total number of NHS hospital beds in England has more than halved over the past 30 years, from around 299,000 in 1987/88 to 141,000 in 2019/20, while the number of patients treated has increased significantly.
 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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Some patients are likely to spend Christmas day in hospital with the virus as Covid-19 cases continue to surge across Gloucestershire,

At the time of writing (December 24), there were 72 patients in hospital with coronavirus across the Gloucestershire Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust - covering Gloucestershire Royal Hospital and Cheltenham General Hospital.

Positively, none of these patients required a mechanical ventilator to breathe.


  • The total number of NHS hospital beds in England has more than halved over the past 30 years, from around 299,000 in 1987/88 to 141,000 in 2019/20, while the number of patients treated has increased significantly.
You're protesting too much SW - deep deep deep down, you want to get vaxxed and avoid:

 
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soundwave

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flecc

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How on earth has Flecc agreed with this? Its a confirmation of what vaccine is doing Flecc. Did you hit the wrong button by mistake?, Or, have you changed your mind and decided vaccines (antigens) are working??
You have a shockingly poor memory. Of course I agreed, I've always advocated using the vaccines as in my March 8th post that you "Liked" when I advocated it three times.

But I also know and have shown that the natural immunity of prior infection is just as good as the vaccines, as Professor Spiegelhalter and Danidl's professor have also said.

So the supposed unvaccinated in very high infection areas like London are in fact often self vaccinated by the virus with their immune system creating th same sort of protection, which can actually be better than the limitations of the artificial vaccines.

Best of all in fact is prior infection followed by both jabs, as Danidl's professor detailed so well.

But of course you don't believe me on prior infection immunity so you can't believe the belated evidence of those professors either.
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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It's not missing, since as you describe, it's the nature of the beast so inherent in my posted data and why I've agreed your post.

My argument with Zlatan is political in nature since he is doing anything both possible and impossible to defend this current UK government's vaccination policies with all its errors.

The inexplicable 28 day one for example, and the wilfully dishonest alteration of the 2020 data to 60 days since a positive test, presumably to increase the number of deaths in 2020 when compared to 2021.

I actually have sympathy for the government and the predicament it's in, but I do wish they would be both more honest and very much more consistent instead of flailing about in all directions with ever changing policies.
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I am doing no such thing. I am saying the vaccine has been proven to work, not perfectly but it has worked.
You are saying Liverpool Health Authority and BBC are lying in defence of Government.
BBC are the only body that has taken our Government to task in past 2 years.. So why now have they started making data up and lying along with every reported ICU in country to support vaccines. That's ridiculous Flecc and you know it. Sounds more GiJoe than GiJoe.
And, it's monotonous anti vaxxer sentiment. Anything positive about vaccines is made up and lies.
Another lying doctor

He, s only the spokesperson for Royal Society of GPs.. But he, s pushing pro government propoganda and lying. I do wonder why?? I think he, d actually be very critical of our Government and its under funding of NHS...
And it questions your argument about previous infection working so well in London..
 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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The desirability of swabbing with alcohol or any other disinfectant has been questioned. Quite a bit of research has been done.

Although there are still questions, and not everyone is convinced that it is sufficient in all circumstances, it is common not to swab at all.

Do bear in mind there are questions over the possible effect of the disinfectant substance used on the skin, its healing and on the injectant.

I know of many who regularly self-inject, even every day, for B12 deficiency who never swab.
Fair point ... Last year we went to get our free flu vaccine at a town pharmacy. ..my wife first and then myself. I noticed she had not been swabbed , and queried it .. the chemist said it was no longer policy.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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It's not missing, since as you describe, it's the nature of the beast so inherent in my posted data and why I've agreed your post.

My argument with Zlatan is political in nature since he is doing anything both possible and impossible to defend this current UK government's vaccination policies with all its errors.

The inexplicable 28 day one for example, and the wilfully dishonest alteration of the 2020 data to 60 days since a positive test, presumably to increase the number of deaths in 2020 when compared to 2021.

I actually have sympathy for the government and the predicament it's in, but I do wish they would be both more honest and very much more consistent instead of flailing about in all directions with ever changing policies.
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Unlike you I have zero sympathy for the UK Government ,in this as in plenty of other topics. Regarding the Pandemic they have given a Masterclass in how to maximize damage to minimal effect. I am convinced it will become a case study in years to come in Project Management and Public Health Diplomas and Public Administration post graduate programmes.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,271
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You are saying Liverpool Health Authority and BBC are lying in defence of Government.
BBC are the only body that has taken our Government to task in past 2 years.. So why now have they started making data up and lying along with every reported ICU in country to support vaccines.
It wasn't BBC footage, it was ITV Granada's, only rebroadcast by the BBC.

And stop saying I am an anti-vaxxer when you know how I've strongly promoted using the vaccines.

I just know, as all the experts do, that for those who survive, naturally gained immunity is usually the best. If that makes me an anti-vaxxer, then experts like Chris Whitty and Jonathan Van Dam are also anti-vaxxers for believing the same.
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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Fair point ... Last year we went to get our free flu vaccine at a town pharmacy. ..my wife first and then myself. I noticed she had not been swabbed , and queried it .. the chemist said it was no longer policy.
I swabbed because I was flinging goat manure around my vegetable plot yesterday. Despite having taken a long shower afterwards, I had fears of gangrene and amputation. The smell worried me about what she's feeding those goats with... smelt like digested remains of other goats.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Unlike you I have zero sympathy for the UK Government ,in this as in plenty of other topics. Regarding the Pandemic they have given a Masterclass in how to maximize damage to minimal effect. I am convinced it will become a case study in years to come in Project Management and Public Health Diplomas and Public Administration post graduate programmes.
It's the same sympathy one has for all the afflicted and inadequate, and they were unfortunate that Covid arrived when it did.

But I fully agree, they have maximised the damage at every turn and I have often posted as such.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,271
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More good news for London, sampling shows we have got 6% infected with Omicron in the last week alone.

That will be well over half a million already gaining some immunity against Omicron to add to our already very high prior infection immunity against existing variants. In our high density living circumstances that's bound to rapidly multiply.

Perhaps we should bar entry to London for anyone not showing proof that they are adequately infected. ;)
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