Brexit, for once some facts.

OxygenJames

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But I didn't say Muslims, not did Barry who I quoted. It should be curtains for them was the clue.
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Thank God for that. You had me worried there. I kept thinking Flecc would never say that how weird - but then probably the two beers distracted me from seeing the spelling or the reference to curtains.

I stand much corrected.
 
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Barry Shittpeas

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Great joke, tell it to those who died and those who grieve for them
Can you stand in front of a mirror, look yourself in the eye and say, Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbot would have done a better job?

Care homes aside, people have killed themselves in many cases.
 

OxygenJames

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BJ dithers and that results in more people catching Covid but that does not make him a killer nor a bad leader of the conservative party. JC on the other hand knew that he was justifiably criticised for his management of the anti-semitism complaint against his party, not because he was a racist but for not doing his job. He was offered a chance to remove his offending remark but no, he did not see that he still offends the victims. The same accusation is levelled against him for not campaigning for Labour remain stance in the 2016 referendum. Then the was a thoroughly disastrous result of an election that he took on unnecessarily. He made far too many wrong decisions compared to BJ.
'dithers'? How about waits and does nothing? Why is it people have no patience with doing nothing? They can't stand waiting. ACTION!!!!! DO SOMETHING!!!! the crowd yells. The crowd wants some action OR WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!! Sometimes doing nothing is the best thing - come to think of it A LOT of the time doing nothing is the best thing. But no. Nothing reminds people of the big nothing to come........ so they'll do anything to stop the silence - turn the radio on - listen to some music - read something ANYTHING but god don't stop doing stuff - gotta keep moving - gotta keep doing doing doing doing. The human race huh? Funny thing.
 
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sjpt

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Jun 8, 2018
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'dithers'? How about waits and does nothing? Why is it people have no patience with doing nothing?
There are many situations when waiting and doing nothing is an excellent strategy. A pandemic doubling its infection rate every few days isn't one of them.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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JC was the worst opposition leader that I've seen in my lifetime.
I hadn't realised you were only 13 years old.

In fact the worst party leader in your lifetime, in your terms of success in gaining votes and getting Labour power is currently Tony Blair, and, before you try to correct me, note my use of "currently" and look at the facts.

It was Blair who introduced devolution, making it possible for the SNP to rise to dominance in Scottish politics. By common consent, once the SNP through nationalism took the majority of seats in Scotland, it destroyed any realistic chance of Labour holding power in the UK parliament, given England's fundamental small "c" conservatism and Labour having always been heavily dependent on the Scottish vote since its Scottish founder to have any chance. Worse still, the same devolution led to the rise in Welsh nationalism enabling Plaid Cymru to also take UK parliamentary seats. Ergo, Blair with that one policy did more to wreck a party's electoral chances than any other party leader in modern history.

And before I finish witn Blair, let me remind you of his Tory nature and its betrayal of Labour's socialist values, most clearly shown in his introduction of of the failed PPI policy and it's very costly consequences, a true Tory policy if ever there was one, mortgaging the future of the young for the sake of short term profit. And then of course was his promotion of the Iraq war and it's devastating consequences. That didn't only wreck Iraq and subsequently Afghanistan, it led with inevitability to the mythical Arab Spring and the current devastation of Libya and Syria with floods of refugees into Europe.

For Labour, for the UK, for the World, Tony Blair is now by a huge margin the worst UK party leader in your lifetime.

Not that he lacks some competition. We had Theresa May, a disastrous Home Secretary who as PM went on to lose her party many seats and its majority in the Commons in an unnecessary general election, and now we have Boris Johnson, having done immense harm to London when Mayor, then becoming an appallingly bad Foreign Secretary and now a bumbling wreck of a Prime Minister, damaging everything he touches.
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oyster

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I hadn't realised you were only 13 years old.

In fact the worst party leader in your lifetime, in your terms of success in gaining votes and getting Labour power is currently Tony Blair, and, before you try to correct me, note my use of "currently" and look at the facts.

It was Blair who introduced devolution, making it possible for the SNP to rise to dominance in Scottish politics. By common consent, once the SNP through nationalism took the majority of seats in Scotland, it destroyed any realistic chance of Labour holding power in the UK parliament, given England's fundamental small "c" conservatism and Labour having always been heavily dependent on the Scottish vote since its Scottish founder to have any chance. Worse still, the same devolution led to the rise in Welsh nationalism enabling Plaid Cymru to also take UK parliamentary seats. Ergo, Blair with that one policy did more to wreck a party's electoral chances than any other party leader in modern history.

And before I finish witn Blair, let me remind you of his Tory nature and its betrayal of Labour's socialist values, most clearly shown in his introduction of of the failed PPI policy and it's very costly consequences, a true Tory policy if ever there was one, mortgaging the future of the young for the sake of short term profit. And then of course was his promotion of the Iraq war and it's devastating consequences. That didn't only wreck Iraq and subsequently Afghanistan, it led with inevitability to the mythical Arab Spring and the current devastation of Libya and Syria.

For Labour, for the UK, for the World, Tony Blair is now by a huge margin the worst UK party leader in your lifetime.

Not that he lacks some competition. We had Theresa May, a disastrous Home Secretary who went on to lose her party many seats and its majority in the Commons in an unnecessary general election, and now we have Boris Johnson, having done immense harm to London when Mayor, then becoming an appallingy bad Foreign Secretary and now a bumbling wreck of a Prime Minister, damaging everything he touches.
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I'll reflect on that but you argue persuasively.
 
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oyster

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I particularly note that Johnson point blank refused to help Wales by stopping people travelling from high infection areas of England to Wales - even while Wales was itself struggling and had banned people in Wales from moving freely.

Yet now, it appears:
This means people cannot travel internationally or within the UK, unless for work, education or other legally permitted exemptions.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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let me remind you of his Tory nature and its betrayal of Labour's socialist values,
it's the other way round.
You seem to identify Labour's core values with its far left militants.
The far left enrols itself into the Labour party and destroys its chances from within.
I remember Michael Foot, Kinnock, Smith, they all had troubles with the far left before Blair.
Only Blair managed to shut the far left in his party, that results in victory for Labour in 3 elections.
Best thing for Labour is to rid itself of the far left.
 

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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Can you stand in front of a mirror, look yourself in the eye and say, Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbot would have done a better job?

Care homes aside, people have killed themselves in many cases.
Aside from care homes, lying about overall deaths, ppe, test and trace, delaying the lockdown, in march as now, opening pubs and restaurants, etc, etc. (teres a reason were practically doing the worst in the world). as a conservative I can imagine it's easy to rationalise all of that with asides for the promise of paying less tax. As you did with the mass murder in care homes.
 
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vfr400

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Jun 12, 2011
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New Stanford University study estimates that 18 Trump rallies have led to 30,000 COVID cases and 700 deaths

*Which averages out to around 39 deaths and 1,167 people who will now have a pre existing condition with many having lifelong complications at each rally.

The Effects of Large Group Meetings on the Spread of COVID-19: The Case of Trump Rallies
My University has just done a study too. It estimates that Trump rallies have led to zero Covid-19 cases and zero deaths. We've analysed the Stanford study and determined that nearly all the assumptions they made were false, which has led to their false conclusions.

It wasn't necessarily their fault that Stanford got it so wrong. It was the local greengrocer, who supplied them with the grapes. He did sell them with an instruction to keep them for a few days to ripen up, but I guess the students, who did the report, were knackered and hungry after spending all day on Twitter hating on Trump supporters, and they had no money left to buy their normal soy food because they'd donated it all to the Biden campaign, so they only had the grapes to eat.
 
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Wicky

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Was this left wing notion conceived in a packed bar somewhere, or at a student party?
Was this left wing notion conceived in a packed bar somewhere, or at a student party?
"Liverpool is a special case. They are professional victims. It won’t be their fault when they start dying. "

Is your ire just reserved for UK cities or it universally applicable for any mass gathering of folk willfuly not taking any common-sense precautions....


The nation’s leading infectious-disease expert gave a blunt assessment’s of President Donald Trump’s COVID-19 failures in a bombshell new interview with The Washington Post

“We’re in for a whole lot of hurt. It’s not a good situation,” Fauci told the newspaper. “All the stars are aligned in the wrong place as you go into the fall and winter season, with people congregating at home indoors. You could not possibly be positioned more poorly.”

Fauci warned America could exceed 100,000 new coronavirus cases a day and called for an “abrupt change” in responding to the pandemic

“Fauci’s blunt warnings come as Trump has rallied in states and cities experiencing record surges in infections and hospitalizations in a last-ditch effort to convince voters he has successfully managed the pandemic. He has held maskless rallies with thousands of supporters, often in violation of local health mandates,” the newspaper explained​

 
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oyster

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My University has just done a study too. It estimates that Trump rallies have led to zero Covid-19 cases and zero deaths.
Is that because the rate of infection is already so stupendously huge?

(And, I assume, you mean zero EXTRA cases and deaths?)
 
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mike killay

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Feb 17, 2011
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Gove says the original projections about the spread of the virus underestimated it.​
The situation has been “worse than any of us expected”, he says.​

Obviously the wrong people doing the expecting. Many elsewhere have been expecting just what is happening. Certainly for weeks it has been obvious to anyone with a brain. Is Gove really admitting that the the distinction between them and porcine ordure is smell? The government stink more. Especially when issuing contracts.

It gives the impression of a government that decided to go for herd immunity (again?) but has just got cold feet as the deaths pile up.
Grow up.
Do you really think that the politicians are doing all the science?
They are advised by scientists as to a course of action, but then have other doctors warning about mental health issues resulting from lock down and also have commerce and industry not wanting lock down, let alone various other unqualified politicians.
They have to take a balance, often just a guess.
 

vfr400

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Jun 12, 2011
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Is that because the rate of infection is already so stupendously huge?

(And, I assume, you mean zero EXTRA cases and deaths?)
No, and your assumption is incorrect. You can get 100% protection against the virus by one of two methods: Firstly, you can hold up a banner with BLM written on it, which I've tried and found to work successfully; secondly, you can wear a MAGA hat or wave a Trump 2020 flag. I've heard that rioting works quite well too, but I haven't had a chance to try that yet. Apparently, the enzymes released during rioting have a more lasting effect than the ones from banner waving, so it'll protect you the day after when you do your shopping, but, of course, that won't help if you looted the shop the night before.
 

wheeler

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Jun 4, 2016
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Kamala Harris rally today. Notice anything?



Trump rally today:
One picture shows a cult leader preaching to his cult, the other shows some Biden supporters walking through a car park.

If you are going to post picture puzzles you'll have to do better than that.

As you've already said Trump rallies are entertainment, the cult followers go along wearing their Chinese manufactured MAGA hats and waving their flags made from Chinese polyester. They are not there to hear about policies or intentions, which is just as well because Trump has none for the people's benefit, only his own.
 

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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it's the other way round.
You seem to identify Labour's core values with its far left militants.
The far left enrols itself into the Labour party and destroys its chances from within.
I remember Michael Foot, Kinnock, Smith, they all had troubles with the far left before Blair.
Only Blair managed to shut the far left in his party, that results in victory for Labour in 3 elections.
Best thing for Labour is to rid itself of the far left.
But Blair was not left. He was a neoconservative, not just politically or in terms of foreign policy (let's gloss over the small matter of destabilising the middle east for several generations and causing Syria, Libya etc shall we?). Also in his chancellor brown's raid on pension funds; all part of architecture of the 08 meltdown. Until boris brexit (and the cognitive dissonant twats who voted for him) came along it was hard to imagine any uk govt could inflict more damage than the blair/brown did
 
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RossG

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Feb 12, 2019
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Head's up everybody ..... a relative has just sent a text from outside a large ASDA supermarket down here on the windy coast. Pandemonium inside, car park full of queuing people with little room for cars.
It's started already, I have 500 toilet rolls which I can sell to forum members for only £4.75 each + P&P ;)
 

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