Brexit, for once some facts.

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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On occasion, I have purchased from amazon.de or amazon.fr (though I try to avoid Amazon altogether, if feasible). I guess that is effectively out of the window now.
I was about to purchase a few hundred quid of cycling stuff from hollandbikeshop on www last night when at the end of the process it slapped an almighty vat tax on the purchase that made me back out. Leaving the EU will be sobering for many in its consequences I think.
 

sjpt

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Jun 8, 2018
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I was about to purchase a few hundred quid of cycling stuff from hollandbikeshop on www last night when at the end of the process it slapped an almighty vat tax on the purchase that made me back out. Leaving the EU will be sobering for many in its consequences I think.
Are you sure that wasn't just informing you that part of the price already been quoted was Dutch VAT?
A few sites quote prices without VAT, but most domestic sites quote prices with VAT, and that is what https://hollandbikeshop.com/ seems to be doing. They then inform you on the final page what part of the total was VAT, but that is not extra above the price quoted, and is the same for anyone buying from within the EU (still including UK).

I just put an arbitrary item on and the final chekout page said

1 x Sunrace Cassette 8S 11/32T € 14,95
TOTAL
Subtotal € 14,95
Shipping costs € 7,95
Total € 22,90
BTW 21% € 2,59

I think that the last line indicates the price of the item was €12.36 without VAT (14.95-2.59), + 21% VAT (Dutch rate) to make it €14.95 (as quoted on the first sunrace page). It is not a charge to be added to the total, just clarification of a charge already included in the total. If you'd bought from a UK site it would have been very similar, except you would only have had a 20% VAT charge, not 21%. And a Dutch buyer on that site would have had the same VAT charges as you.

Maybe you somehow got onto a different version of their site that quoted VAT-free prices and only added VAT at the last minute?
~~~
It may well be that things get worse after our real EU exit, and in particular that there may be more paperwork, depending how much more our negotiators screw up.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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Are you sure that wasn't just informing you that part of the price already been quoted was Dutch VAT?
A few sites quote prices without VAT, but most domestic sites quote prices with VAT, and that is what https://hollandbikeshop.com/ seems to be doing. They then inform you on the final page what part of the total was VAT, but that is not extra above the price quoted, and is the same for anyone buying from within the EU (still including UK).

I just put an arbitrary item on and the final chekout page said

1 x Sunrace Cassette 8S 11/32T € 14,95
TOTAL
Subtotal € 14,95
Shipping costs € 7,95
Total € 22,90
BTW 21% € 2,59

I think that the last line indicates the price of the item was €12.36 without VAT (14.95-2.59), + 21% VAT (Dutch rate) to make it €14.95 (as quoted on the first sunrace page). It is not a charge to be added to the total, just clarification of a charge already included in the total. If you'd bought from a UK site it would have been very similar, except you would only have had a 20% VAT charge, not 21%. And a Dutch buyer on that site would have had the same VAT charges as you.

Maybe you somehow got onto a different version of their site that quoted VAT-free prices and only added VAT at the last minute?
~~~
It may well be that things get worse after our real EU exit, and in particular that there may be more paperwork, depending how much more our negotiators screw up.
As I see things, smaller companies in the EU (and elsewhere) will not want to register with HMRC.

So everything they send will be subject to Border Force/HMRC inspection and levying of UK VAT.

But I suspect some either won't want to, or simply won't, remove their local VAT. Resulting in double VAT.

And we will have to pay customs clearance charges on every penny washer we buy. If that doesn't change, Royal Mail will charge £8 and others more.

Of course, if it is a bother and the volume they sell is small, they might simply stop trading with the UK altogether.
 
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sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
3,773
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Winchester
As I see things, smaller companies in the EU (and elsewhere) will not want to register with HMRC.

So everything they send will be subject to Border Force/HMRC inspection and levying of UK VAT.

But I suspect some either won't want to, or simply won't, remove their local VAT. Resulting in double VAT.

And we will have to pay customs clearance charges on every penny washer we buy. If that doesn't change, Royal Mail will charge £8 and others more.

Of course, if it is a bother and the volume they sell is small, they might simply stop trading with the UK altogether.
One thing we agree, it will be confusing. And almost certainly disadvantageous to the UK consumer.

Basically we will have a choice. Do we want to buy Chinese manufactured goods (a) direct from China, (b) from UK supplier, or (c) via EU supplier.

Probably also limited choice (d) buy goods not manufactured in China; and very very limited choice (e) buy goods manufactured in UK.

~~~
I remember an (excellent) IBM laptop shortly before they sold out to Lenovo; it came with a single small screw in a plastic bag. There was a label on the bag. No indication of what the screw was for, but marked 'Manufactured in China, assembled in Scotland'.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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The likely cost of Exporting to the EU in 2021
Brexit: EU red tape could block thousands of British businesses exporting goods and services to Europe
Following the end of the Brexit transition period on 31 December, all UK companies wishing to export to the EU will be forced to pay tens of thousands of pounds

Is this Project "Fear"
or Project "Reality

But it isn't Red tape, it's the rules!!!!
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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perhaps a rather hysterical laugh is in order over this particular Brexit bonus

UK govt looking at proposals to change regulations to encourage people to sift through rubbish dumps as part of its plans to stimulate the post Brexit british economy.

:oops:
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,397
3,381
Are you sure that wasn't just informing you that part of the price already been quoted was Dutch VAT?
A few sites quote prices without VAT, but most domestic sites quote prices with VAT, and that is what https://hollandbikeshop.com/ seems to be doing. They then inform you on the final page what part of the total was VAT, but that is not extra above the price quoted, and is the same for anyone buying from within the EU (still including UK).

I just put an arbitrary item on and the final chekout page said

1 x Sunrace Cassette 8S 11/32T € 14,95
TOTAL
Subtotal € 14,95
Shipping costs € 7,95
Total € 22,90
BTW 21% € 2,59

I think that the last line indicates the price of the item was €12.36 without VAT (14.95-2.59), + 21% VAT (Dutch rate) to make it €14.95 (as quoted on the first sunrace page). It is not a charge to be added to the total, just clarification of a charge already included in the total. If you'd bought from a UK site it would have been very similar, except you would only have had a 20% VAT charge, not 21%. And a Dutch buyer on that site would have had the same VAT charges as you.

Maybe you somehow got onto a different version of their site that quoted VAT-free prices and only added VAT at the last minute?
~~~
It may well be that things get worse after our real EU exit, and in particular that there may be more paperwork, depending how much more our negotiators screw up.
Thanks, I checked, it seems my phone logged onto a vat free version of hollandbikeshop
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Ireland
One thing we agree, it will be confusing. And almost certainly disadvantageous to the UK consumer.

Basically we will have a choice. Do we want to buy Chinese manufactured goods (a) direct from China, (b) from UK supplier, or (c) via EU supplier.

Probably also limited choice (d) buy goods not manufactured in China; and very very limited choice (e) buy goods manufactured in UK.

~~~
I remember an (excellent) IBM laptop shortly before they sold out to Lenovo; it came with a single small screw in a plastic bag. There was a label on the bag. No indication of what the screw was for, but marked 'Manufactured in China, assembled in Scotland'.
The lenovo / IBM laptops still maintain the same high quality ...
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,397
3,381
The lenovo / IBM laptops still maintain the same high quality ...
I'm not sure of that. Had to use an NHS Lenovo laptop recently (admittedly the cheapest most dysfunctional **** some inept manager in supplies could source and load with maddeningly slow crap like care notes etc). But the battery conked after two months, the keyboard has a cheap lifeless plastic resonance and the hard drive is glacial slow. My first desktop (back in the nineties) was an IBM 486, and that was ergonomically a very different beast
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Well I needed a good laugh to start the day
Sunday Express


Can an entire Government be asked to resign on the grounds mass inanity? :D
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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This cricketer is Batty
Apparently according to this dangerous intellectual
"England is an Island"

I guess Scotland and Wales must be too?:cool:
A little history
jojo77@fbpe_jojo77
·
21h

Let nobody forget that Ian Botham posted a pic of his cock on this very website once. But yeah, let’s give the c**t a knighthood for supporting national suicide.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Aaron Banks is trying another legal action, this time against release of the Russia report


Do tell him to "F" off!
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
The likely cost of Exporting to the EU in 2021
Brexit: EU red tape could block thousands of British businesses exporting goods and services to Europe
Following the end of the Brexit transition period on 31 December, all UK companies wishing to export to the EU will be forced to pay tens of thousands of pounds

Is this Project "Fear"
or Project "Reality

But it isn't Red tape, it's the rules!!!!
I've put "Informative" but, in reality, it was plain as a pikestaff this situation would arise.

(How plain is a pikestaff?)
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
This cricketer is Batty
Apparently according to this dangerous intellectual
"England is an Island"

I guess Scotland and Wales must be too?:cool:
A little history
jojo77@fbpe_jojo77
·
21h

Let nobody forget that Ian Botham posted a pic of his cock on this very website once. But yeah, let’s give the c**t a knighthood for supporting national suicide.
If England is an island, it implies that, for example, the Isle of Wight isn't a part of England. Why then, choose it for testing the English track and trace app?
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
I'm not sure of that. Had to use an NHS Lenovo laptop recently (admittedly the cheapest most dysfunctional **** some inept manager in supplies could source and load with maddeningly slow crap like care notes etc). But the battery conked after two months, the keyboard has a cheap lifeless plastic resonance and the hard drive is glacial slow. My first desktop (back in the nineties) was an IBM 486, and that was ergonomically a very different beast
Are they still fitting hard drives to laptops/notebooks?

Wouldn't touch a machine without an SSD of some sort! My experience is that even a small SSD makes such a huge difference, you'd be better off downgrading almost everything else in order to get one. Certainly it makes more difference than a faster processor or faster RAM (but RAM and storage are so inter-related it is not simple to decide whether it is slow storage or inadequate RAM that is causing the issue).
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Aaron Banks is trying another legal action, this time against release of the Russia report


Do tell him to "F" off!
It would be amusing if the report referred to "Arron Banks", "Arron Fraser Andrew Banks" or even "Mr Pink".

'No, really, there are no references to "Mr Banks" at all.'
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Anyone remember covid alert levels? :D

Did the alert level get changed for Leicester? Or is it an absolute nonsense?

If we can't have different levels depending on local circumstances, we might as well not have it. But we all know that the politicians are dead set against being seen to raise the alert level unless and until absolutely forced. (Even then, they are as likely to introduce a new 3+ level rather than going to 4.)
 

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