Brexit, for once some facts.

[BrendanJ]

nothing stops the Greeks abandoning the Euro.
The reason is clear: they believe that are better off remaining in the Eurozone than out.
The question is, should other Eurozone countries put their hands in their pockets and help Greece more?

That what full fiscal union means. You know like us funding Scotland or for that matter fiscal flows from Yorkshire to Lancashire
That is exactly my point, if they claim to want an EU state they better start acting like it, and the Greeks they clearly hold some blame, but it is still irrelevant, they are a full member of EU. Don't punish the youth, old and infirm for the failures of politicians.
Are they going to create this Utopia or just the bits they like including the economic dominance of the few and power in the hands of the few. Whats democratic about that

And frankly your comment about they can leave and abandon the Euro is callous and objectionable. They cannot and is why the big bully Germany played hard ball.
It will be us next when we give up our chance

 

[oldtom]

By Friday morning we shall almost certainly know the result of the referendum so I think it's important that all EAPC riders recognise just how beneficial the EU has been for those of us who require some electrical assistance.

Is there anyone among us who would wish to return to our own legislation with regard to electric motor assistance on our bikes? I certainly wouldn't as two out of my three would be rendered illegal under the UK law.

From me, it's three cheers for Europe!

ps For anyone not understanding what I'm on about, I'm sure Flecc would be happy to furnish you with the appropriate details of what was in force previously.

Tom......with due apologies to Flecc!

 

[BrendanJ]

Agreed, but the EU cannot govern for the one outsider, it has to govern for the majority of full members. Two tiers are not possible. That of course will not suit us.

As I've posted so often, the UK needs to make it's mind up, full membership or total disconnection, trying to sit on the fence is daft, compromise satisfies no-one.
.

Agreed, but our politicians are still pretending we have a special deal

 

[flecc]

Don't recall us getting any say in that. Wasn't that a treaty change?

Yes, like all the EU treaties voted for by all the members, including us. John Major as prime minister signed up to it in 1992.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

KTM

I am quite sure I have voiced this in previous posts but I will try to summarize in as few words as possible
- I do not agree with the direction the EU is going, it seems to be sleep walking to a federal state, driven by Bureaucrats rather than the real consensus of the peoples.
- It is already showing all the signs of future collapse, economically and from external factors that it is proving incapable of addressing. The only answer is always "more of the same". It still sees ita ll as one project, one way, no compromise, no recognition of Euro area plus Non Euro area in anthing but words
- The Greece issue to me was and is being handled in a completely immoral way and the unemployment levels of youth in Greece , Spain, Italy is spelling economic suicide. Those famous phrases " a lost generation". In not addressing these issues they for me lose any moral high ground whilst Germany preserves its wealth and devil take the hindmost is not the sign of a future unified state I would want to be part of
- Finally the democracy issue, we have heard a lot said about that. The mechanisms have to work and be truly influence able and accountable to people in the street. I am not a democracy theorist before some of start quoting theory.
But the British people are completely disengaged from the European process (blame who you like!) and we have a completely different vision to the current Federal vision.
I truly believe ALL of Europe is sleepwalking to that vision and will come around to similar views as Britain has in due course through crisis and conflict. If that could be achieved, ie Reform them my view might change but currently it cannot so lets get out.
Of course a Brexit vote could help things along to a serious dialogue
To avoid confusion I am anti EU not anti europe

I hope that answers your question KTM, it is my view and to those of you that are tempted to simply shout black is white and that I am wrong, then sing to yourself. Any meaningful considered and balance comments or opinions are always welcome of course

Actually the emergence of a united European state is inevitable and entirely desirable in my humble opinion, so your fears of this happening are to me like wishing we could go back to the Saxon kingdoms

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[BrendanJ]

By Friday morning we shall almost certainly know the result of the referendum so I think it's important that all EAPC riders recognise just how beneficial the EU has been for those of us who require some electrical assistance.

Is there anyone among us who would wish to return to our own legislation with regard to electric motor assistance on our bikes? I certainly wouldn't as two out of my three would be rendered illegal under the UK law.

From me, it's three cheers for Europe!

ps For anyone not understanding what I'm on about, I'm sure Flecc would be happy to furnish you with the appropriate details of what was in force previously.

Tom......with due apologies to Flecc!

OH What an insight, phone Cameron and the Brexiteers. Old Tom has got the answer. Ha Ha Ha

 

[flecc]

Agreed, but our politicians are still pretending we have a special deal

We do. We have full market access without being a full member. We are not signed up to Shengen. We have a substantial rebate on our EU share of contributions.

That's a special deal.
.

 

[tillson]

I know about that, but in politics expediency comes first.

This is a perfect illustration why referendums are wrong. Once a government is elected, it should be left to get on with the infinitely complex job of governing.

The electorate simply don't have the knowledge and skills to cope with the subtleties required for diplomatic necessity.
.

So, is the ecconomic case for remaining a diplomatic necessity, not a true and fact based argument? A case constructed, bought and paid for in part with titles and honours.

It's very difficult to place a value on what is said. Trust in politics has been squandered in recent years.

 

[trex]

...
They cannot and is why the big bully Germany played hard ball.
It will be us next when we give up our chance

I follow the Greek crisis for a number of years now Brendan.
The Greeks make a wise choice to keep the Euro and not return to the Drachma.

 

[flecc]

Is there anyone among us who would wish to return to our own legislation with regard to electric motor assistance on our bikes? I certainly wouldn't as two out of my three would be rendered illegal under the UK law.

The original EAPC law was for a strict 200 watts limit with no room for higher peak powers, plus an assist limit of 12 mph. That prevented e-bikes being a success for almost two decades.

Aligning with the EU in three steps over the years brought us to where we are now.

250 watts limit with considerable tolerance, 15.5 mph assist limit, and permission for S class 500 watts with 28 mph assist limit if our UK government would allow it. The EU is the pedelecer's friend, the UK government much less so.
.

 

[trex]

By Friday morning we shall almost certainly know the result of the referendum

I would have thought that the stock market would have reacted a lot sooner than that. There are a lot of private exit polls done for hedge funds, we should see some movement from 1-2PM.
The BBC would normally give their exit poll prediction around 10PM Thursday .

 

[oldgroaner]

So, is the ecconomic case for remaining a diplomatic necessity, not a true and fact based argument? A case constructed, bought and paid for in part with titles and honours.

It's very difficult to place a value on what is said. Trust in politics has been squandered in recent years.

As to the first paragraph the answer depends on who you ask, but your final paragraph is no less that the absolute truth.
And the greatest damage to that trust has been caused by the myth that we have a "Free Press" in this country of ours, instead of a propaganda machine fuelled on lies, be it from Left or Right.
And of course Politicians who's only claim to fame is that like scum they have by fair means or foul, lies and deceit, risen to the top.
If I may deliberately misquote a saying from the First World War.
"We are lions led by Hyenas and Vultures"

 

[oldgroaner]

OH What an insight, phone Cameron and the Brexiteers. Old Tom has got the answer. Ha Ha Ha

Come on Brendan we know you can do a better job of being scornful than that.
Or was it intended to be humorous ? if you feel like doing it again a little early warning would be helpful so we know what reaction you expect.

 

[BrendanJ]

So I hear our judicial system has just performed a unique achievement and has completed the investigation, and bringing to trial of joes murderer in record time and it goes to trial on Thursday 23rd, but don't worry guys this is completely coincidental and in no way will compete for airtime with the referendum and so will not influence any but the simple minded. Any one that would like a years free membership to the uk democracy society, please send to mr Cameron for vetting of suitability

 

[oldgroaner]

So I hear our judicial system has just performed a unique achievement and has completed the investigation, and bringing to trial of joes murderer in record time and it goes to trial on Thursday 23rd, but don't worry guys this is completely coincidental and in no way will compete for airtime with the referendum and so will not influence any but the simple minded. Any one that would like a years free membership to the uk democracy society, please send to mr Cameron for vetting of suitability

Well it seems you were right for once as it has influenced at least one person already!

 

[mike killay]

I remain a Brexiter, despite so many Remainers on this site.
I do not like being in a Dictatorship, ruled by the unelected, and the suggestion that somehow in yonks to come, those with their hands on the levers of power will hand it over to an elected majority is in my opinion, just pie in the sky.
Europe will remain a fascist dictatorship, ruled by the elite.
And we are asked by some on here to support this abomination just because they allowed 250 watt electric bikes?

 

[oldgroaner]

I remain a Brexiter, despite so many Remainers on this site.
I do not like being in a Dictatorship, ruled by the unelected, and the suggestion that somehow in yonks to come, those with their hands on the levers of power will hand it over to an elected majority is in my opinion, just pie in the sky.
Europe will remain a fascist dictatorship, ruled by the elite.
And we are asked by some on here to support this abomination just because they allowed 250 watt electric bikes?

You really need to check the facts: the EU is one of the most Democratic of all institutions on the planet, in no way is it ruled by an elite, in short for some reason you have simply got an inverted view of the true situation, probably because the only information you have seen has been anti in every respect.
Clearly nothing will change your mind,will it? no facts will have any influence at all, and as yours is not an uncommon state of mind I still predict a victory for the Brexit camp.
But I very much doubt that looking back later in life you will see it as a wise choice.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

KTM

I am quite sure I have voiced this in previous posts but I will try to summarize in as few words as possible

I'm not ignoring your reply, and I appreciate you taking the time to put your opinions down. I'll reply when I get a moment, because I think your comment deserves it.

This one however....

I remain a Brexiter, despite so many Remainers on this site.
I do not like being in a Dictatorship, ruled by the unelected, and the suggestion that somehow in yonks to come, those with their hands on the levers of power will hand it over to an elected majority is in my opinion, just pie in the sky.
Europe will remain a fascist dictatorship, ruled by the elite.
And we are asked by some on here to support this abomination just because they allowed 250 watt electric bikes?

is frankly terrifying! It shows such a lack of respect for actual facts that its unbelievable.

I'm reminded of the quote from the European Law lecturer I heard recently who said that for him (an expert in the laws of the EU and the way its run and its impact on the UK) it was like being a professor of biology and trying to convince a creationist about the process of evolution.

No amount of fact or science or proof it appears is going to make you realise you are simply talking nonsense.

 

[oldtom]

You really need to check the facts: the EU is one of the most Democratic of all institutions on the planet, in no way is it ruled by an elite, in short for some reason you have simply got an inverted view of the true situation, probably because the only information you have seen has been anti in every respect.
Clearly nothing will change your mind,will it? no facts will have any influence at all, and as yours is not an uncommon state of mind I still predict a victory for the Brexit camp.
But I very much doubt that looking back later in life you will see it as a wise choice.

You have amazing tolerance 'oldgroaner'. I really despair at times when I read some of the ridiculous views held by some contributors here. Clearly, our education system has failed and while care in the community may save on the costs of mental health care in special hospitals, there is a price to pay for such largesse from the taxpayer as evidenced here.

I know.....I really need to try harder on the tolerance front! To my credit though, I try never to engage in a battle of wits with those who are only half-prepared.

Tom

 

[mike killay]

I am not talking nonsense.
The EU is profoundly undemocratic, believe otherwise if you like.
Also, its accounts have not been signed off for years, Worried?
Not if you are in the remain camp.
Do you realise that there are other forums where pro EU views as expressed on here would be viewed with horror?
And Old Tom, stop being so insulting sitting on your high moral ground virtue signalling like crazy.
Your views are only shared by about 50% of the population, you may be in a minority.
I used to enjoy this forum, I respected fellow ebikers, I did not know that they were hard left and supported by Lenin's 'willing army of naïve fools'
Good bye.