Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
as a complete aside (really) I find the process on this thread interesting - as a non English person it is in a kind of cross cultural sense intriguing (you may not experience it this way if you're English). for one thing, where i'm from arguments are less nitty gritty factual, more emotive - and then more direct but potentially also more explosive and divisive. and somehow things are not always polite either - although the french, for example, have their own way to not allow disagreement to become terminal, even if less politely. I don't know that there are any rights or wrongs - but it certainly gives me some insight into what I perceive as the English psyche I didn't have before.
How on earth do you expect a comment such as "Do you realise that there are other forums where pro EU views as expressed on here would be viewed with horror?"
With anything other than derision?
Of course we do! and so what? are you asserting that you, or others with similar opinions have the moral authority to determine what other people think?
As to that nonsense "I used to enjoy this forum, I respected fellow ebikers, I did not know that they were hard left and supported by Lenin's 'willing army of naïve fools'"
And now therefore I see that they are a form of low life I won't associate with so I'm leaving in a huff?
No wonder you regards the EU as Undemocratic if your idea of Democracy is dictating terms and conditions rather than negotiation.
Ah well, it takes all sorts.
Last edited:
Do not despair Tom, as the impact of reality will, if Brexit carries the day and we find ourselves going from being a major player in the EU, affecting the way it works to having to negotiate a Norway option making us subservient to it with no say in the way it operates.bring home very quickly to the public the consequences of the mistake we have made.
The arguments for Brexit will suddenly seem the fantasy they really are and there will be a clamour to climb back into the Titanic's lifeboat as the water is too cold.
We will rapidly remember what made us climb into the lifeboat (join the EU) as the good old ship of state starts rapidly taking on water again, and this time we have sold off all the pumps, haven't we?
Patience my friend.
A little from the Guardian this morning
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jun/15/eu-referendum-lies-myths-and-half-truths-video-explainer
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jun/15/eu-referendum-lies-myths-and-half-truths-video-explainer
the biggest myth is the charge that the EU is undemocratic.
I can't see how logical Brexiters come to that conclusion.
Currently, the bookies give Brexit 24% chance.
The Pound is at $1.47- up 1c from yesterday.
I guess a lot of Chinese bike importers can breath easy now.
I can't see how logical Brexiters come to that conclusion.
Currently, the bookies give Brexit 24% chance.
The Pound is at $1.47- up 1c from yesterday.
I guess a lot of Chinese bike importers can breath easy now.
The reality is this country is 1.6 trillion pounds in debt.
We have the opportunity to downsize UK plc and consolidate our liabilities to the EU and for this reason I will be voting again to leave this community that has no chance of bringing Europe together because of long held differences between countries and people within it.
We were conned into joining the EEC and have fed it financially 40 odd years which has enabled it to expand into its present form without any means of stopping further development.
Our UK democratic voice consists of 70 odd MEPs about 10% of the total and a promised veto like we gained in the 1970s which turned out to be useless.
We are now being fed the same regurgitated facts of the 70's.
We have the opportunity to downsize UK plc and consolidate our liabilities to the EU and for this reason I will be voting again to leave this community that has no chance of bringing Europe together because of long held differences between countries and people within it.
We were conned into joining the EEC and have fed it financially 40 odd years which has enabled it to expand into its present form without any means of stopping further development.
Our UK democratic voice consists of 70 odd MEPs about 10% of the total and a promised veto like we gained in the 1970s which turned out to be useless.
We are now being fed the same regurgitated facts of the 70's.
you can put half of that debt on account of over-reliance on the stock market and financial services. For decades, the City pays 20% of our expenditure. When the golden goose stops laying from 2009, we have nothing to replace it with. Immigration is the short term solution for Darling and Osborne.
Blame Mrs T and Mr Brown rather than the EU. Without EU migrrants, our PSBR will be higher, not less.
You can put it down to whatever you like but "The reality is this country is 1.6 trillion pounds in debt" fact
Delightfully put 'Oldgroaner' and a joy to read! My dearest hope is that good old common sense prevails on Thursday.
Tom
that is true, aslo true if foreign investors pull their money out of London, we will be economically worse off. That's what has happened in the last few months.
another big myth: nobody can predict the economic future if we vote out.
if Brexit is great (economically), then the smart money would be pouring in from the moment the date of the referendum is announced. The reality is the opposite.
if Brexit is great (economically), then the smart money would be pouring in from the moment the date of the referendum is announced. The reality is the opposite.
Put whether immigration is a good or bad thing to one side for a moment. David Cameron knew at least 12 months prior to the last general election that he had absolutely no chance of controlling it whilst a member of the EU. Yet, a key manifesto pledge was to bring net migration to the UK down to tens of thousands. In other words, a lie to sooth people's concerns and to win the day.
Put whether Turkey joining the EU is a good or bad thing to one side. Yesterday, I posted a video of David Cameron making a speech in which he stated full support for Turkey joining the EU. He said that he wanted them to be a member as soon as possible. I think the video clip dates from 2012. Fast forward to last Sunday evening. The man was telling the public that Turkey joining the EU is so unlikely that they need not worry about it. Another lie to sooth concerns and to try and win the day.
Cameron is a confirmed liar and there are two examples given above. He WILL lie to you in order to manipulate the outcome of the referendum. Some may say that Johnson is no better, that may be true, but he does not have exclusivity over this particular trait.
Don't be taken in too much by the "experts", many are either integral parts of the EU themselves or title hungry lickspittles dancing a jig to Cameron's tune.
Cameron has lied in the past in order to win. Is he now telling lies about the economic affects of quitting the EU? History suggests that he is.
Put whether Turkey joining the EU is a good or bad thing to one side. Yesterday, I posted a video of David Cameron making a speech in which he stated full support for Turkey joining the EU. He said that he wanted them to be a member as soon as possible. I think the video clip dates from 2012. Fast forward to last Sunday evening. The man was telling the public that Turkey joining the EU is so unlikely that they need not worry about it. Another lie to sooth concerns and to try and win the day.
Cameron is a confirmed liar and there are two examples given above. He WILL lie to you in order to manipulate the outcome of the referendum. Some may say that Johnson is no better, that may be true, but he does not have exclusivity over this particular trait.
Don't be taken in too much by the "experts", many are either integral parts of the EU themselves or title hungry lickspittles dancing a jig to Cameron's tune.
Cameron has lied in the past in order to win. Is he now telling lies about the economic affects of quitting the EU? History suggests that he is.
How odd it has doubled under a Tory regime, but what has it to do with the EU?
it's good to see you're still trying to exercise the family brain cell (but a bit disheartening to note that you're still humping all the wrong trees), you're as usual getting lost in politicians' populist rhetoric (which really means very little) instead of the facts.
You can put it down to whatever you like but "The reality is this country is 1.6 trillion pounds in debt" fact
On Cameron, of course he is the biggest liar going, and lied about his intentions on Turkey without doubt, thought there is the huge Barrier to Turkey becoming a member as there has to be unanimity among the other 27 member nations before it can join, and it has very long way to go on the many conditions it has to meet first, none of which Cameron has any control over, making Turkey membership none starter for a very long time indeed.
As regarding Boris and Gove? the same comments apply as to Cameron.
So just what then is your point? by what mechanism will coming out of the EU mysteriously cancel the debt? we have already lost the equivalent of TEN YEARS membership of the EU in just four days last week on Brexit fears!
Explain how putting ourselves outside the worlds most dynamic market with so little industrial capacity to manufacture goods will allow to us sell enough goods, and the future of the services and finance industry in a doubtful position too will enable us to eliminate £1.6T of debt?
How many thousands of years had you in mind?