Brexit, for once some facts.

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Said about 150 posts ago this thread typifies this forum.
Some come on and express opinions, others come on to knock and insult from an assumed position of knowledge. Herr Flecc and old groaner Merkel are saying same things they were 3 weeks ago. Some seem to have time, inclination and belligerence to post over and over again completely skewing the real situation.
Those same folk quote their information as fact ( which it rarely is) and imply brexiters are utterly misinformed.
Ironically oldgroaner makes all noises about being broad minded, anti racist and then shoots his foot off grouping and insulting all Yorkshire folk ( by the way it was a dadism not a proverb)
But, I must offer a thanks to Flecc, OG,Trex and KTM. I was leaning toward brexit. Fully committed to it now. ( don't think it will happen tho?)

 

[tillson]

Warren East, the Chief Executive of Rolls Royce PLC (aero engine maker) has written to all of his staff warning against BREXIT.

The Guardian has reported on this saying that Rolls Royce may locate a new £65 million pound engine testing facility elsewhere if BREXIT goes ahead. It also goes on to say that Rolls Royce could stand to lose one of its biggest customers, Airbus.

Now this is horse $h!t. This is typical of the lies being being spread about the affects to our economy.

The first point regarding the engine testing facility. I worked for Rolls Royce for many years and during that time I was the senior project engineer over the design, procurement, building and commissioning of three such aero engine testing facilities. One was the largest facility ever built up until that point and was intended for the forthcoming Trent series of engines. I can tell you with absolute certainty that whether the UK is a member of the EU has no bearing whatsoever on where an aero engine testing facility is built. There are many factors to consider in the placement of the test site, but being in the EU is not one of them.

The second point, losing Airbus as a customer. More horse $h!t. Airbus are not engine customers. Airbus make the aircraft and offer them to the airlines who then choose which engines will power them. Airbus will not make their aircraft unpopular by deliberately, "designing out" Rolls Royce engines from their airframe. This would restrict customer choice and make them less competitive than Boeing who offer GE, Pratt & Whitney and Rolls Royce on their airframes. Customers currently buy Rolls Royce engines, not because we are EU members, but because they have commercial benefits. An airline will not walk away from a Rolls Royce engine just because its maker is not an EU member. It will never happen.

Warren East is telling lies in support of remain's project fear. Sir Warren East anyone?

I am sure the untruthful scare mongering outlined above is the blue-print for other industries that have taken the Cameron bait.

They are pulling literally pulling your trousers down over the economic case for remaining in the EU.

 

[oldgroaner]

Said about 150 posts ago this thread typifies this forum.
Some come on and express opinions, others come on to knock and insult from an assumed position of knowledge. Herr Flecc and old groaner Merkel are saying same things they were 3 weeks ago. Some seem to have time, inclination and belligerence to post over and over again completely skewing the real situation.
Those same folk quote their information as fact ( which it rarely is) and imply brexiters are utterly misinformed.
Ironically oldgroaner makes all noises about being broad minded, anti racist and then shoots his foot off grouping and insulting all Yorkshire folk ( by the way it was a dadism not a proverb)
But, I must offer a thanks to Flecc, OG,Trex and KTM. I was leaning toward brexit. Fully committed to it now. ( don't think it will happen tho?)

The reason we say the same things are simply that they are checkable facts where the Brexit side have none to offer, and if you thought that the old Freddie Truman line as insulting to Yorkshire, then you really don't understand Yorkshire humour, do you?
So kind of you of you to offer your condescending thanks, the response is of course to thank you in return for such dogged defence of an indefensible argument.
Though a worthier opponent would have been able to quote more than myths to back up their argument, and name calling is a bit juvenile don't you think?
Brexiters are indeed misinformed to an alarming degree, but worse than that, a large proportion are unwilling to check for themselves the facts, when it is so much easier to go with the way the Press want them to
Because of this it is still my belief that Brexit will win the day, as in this instance "You can fool all of the people some of the time" will likely hold the majority long enough for the damage to be done.
Since I am forecasting a Brexit victory, you haven't much to complain about have you?
YET

 

[oldgroaner]

Warren East, the Chief Executive of Rolls Royce PLC (aero engine maker) has written to all of his staff warning against BREXIT.

The Guardian has reported on this saying that Rolls Royce may locate a new £65 million pound engine testing facility elsewhere if BREXIT goes ahead. It also goes on to say that Rolls Royce could stand to lose one of its biggest customers, Airbus.

Now this is horse $h!t. This is typical of the lies being being spread about the affects to our economy.

The first point regarding the engine testing facility. I worked for Rolls Royce for many years and during that time I was the senior project engineer over the design, procurement, building and commissioning of three such aero engine testing facilities. One was the largest facility ever built up until that point and was intended for the forthcoming Trent series of engines. I can tell you with absolute certainty that whether the UK is a member of the EU has no bearing whatsoever on where an aero engine testing facility is built. There are many factors to consider in the placement of the test site, but being in the EU is not one of them.

The second point, losing Airbus as a customer. More horse $h!t. Airbus are not engine customers. Airbus make the aircraft and offer them to the airlines who then choose which engines will power them. Airbus will not make their aircraft unpopular by deliberately, "designing out" Rolls Royce engines from their airframe. This would restrict customer choice and make them less competitive than Boeing who offer GE, Pratt & Whitney and Rolls Royce on their airframes. Customers currently buy Rolls Royce engines, not because we are EU members, but because they have commercial benefits. An airline will not walk away from a Rolls Royce engine just because its maker is not an EU member. It will never happen.

Warren East is telling lies in support of remain's project fear. Sir Warren East anyone?

I am sure the untruthful scare mongering outlined above is the blue-print for other industries that have taken the Cameron bait.

They are pulling literally pulling your trousers down over the economic case for remaining in the EU.

Come on then Tillson, great post, and a well constructed and seemingly strong case.
Just one flaw in the logic, now tell us why these executives are being so wanton with the truth, when they can buy these honours any day of the week with loose change?

 

[derf]

Said about 150 posts ago this thread typifies this forum.
Some come on and express opinions, others come on to knock and insult from an assumed position of knowledge. Herr Flecc and old groaner Merkel are saying same things they were 3 weeks ago. Some seem to have time, inclination and belligerence to post over and over again completely skewing the real situation.
Those same folk quote their information as fact ( which it rarely is) and imply brexiters are utterly misinformed.
Ironically oldgroaner makes all noises about being broad minded, anti racist and then shoots his foot off grouping and insulting all Yorkshire folk ( by the way it was a dadism not a proverb)
But, I must offer a thanks to Flecc, OG,Trex and KTM. I was leaning toward brexit. Fully committed to it now. ( don't think it will happen tho?)

and you're suggesting the brexiters on this thread have not "knocked and insulted" as opposed to having a meaningful argument?

 

[BrendanJ]

Delightfully put 'Oldgroaner' and a joy to read! My dearest hope is that good old common sense prevails on Thursday.

Tom

Do you remember those two old Muppets!!!

 

[oldgroaner]

and you're suggesting the brexiters on this thread have not "knocked and insulted" as opposed to having a meaningful argument?

Shh! you're not supposed to notice!

 

[oldgroaner]

Do you remember those two old Muppets!!!

Waldorf and Statler? of course, but at least they they had the mental agility to change their minds, can you claim as much?

 

[tillson]

Come on then Tillson, great post, and a well constructed and seemingly strong case.
Just one flaw in the logic, now tell us why these executives are being so wanton with the truth, when they can buy these honours any day of the week with loose change?

But they can't purchase title can they?

From my dim and distant past at uni, I seem to remember trying to stay awake during the compulsory, General Studies element of the course when we discussed Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It begins with being able to put food on the table and ends with something like self actualisation. These guys have put the food on the table, have safety and security, possess esteem, the ultimate is the title, which they crave, and to achieve that they have to tow the line, be servant to the master, which ultimately is the government of the day.

 

[shemozzle999]

So just what then is your point? by what mechanism will coming out of the EU mysteriously cancel the debt? we have already lost the equivalent of TEN YEARS membership of the EU in just four days last week on Brexit fears!
Explain how putting ourselves outside the worlds most dynamic market with so little industrial capacity to manufacture goods will allow to us sell enough goods, and the future of the services and finance industry in a doubtful position too will enable us to eliminate £1.6T of debt?
How many thousands of years had you in mind?

First you tell me how staying in will reduce it

 

[oldgroaner]

And that is the point, isn't it, who are the people who actually direct the actions of the government? Its certainly not the public

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[trex]

@tillson

I can think of a few reasons why Brexit would hurt sales for Rolls Royce.
The first one is trade negociations. Before they are completed, there are more hurdles to do deals.

 

[tillson]

@tillson

I can think of a few reasons why Brexit would hurt sales for Rolls Royce.
The first one is trade negociations. Before they are completed, there are more hurdles to do deals.

Are you actually trying to suggest that Lufthansa or other European airline would purchase a less fuel efficient and less reliable engine from non EU member the USA, because the UK was no longer a member of the EU?

That makes no sense trex, no sense at all. Much like the rest of the economic argument.

Can you imagine the board meeting at Lufthansa? I propose we buy this inferior engine of the yanks and hurt our business, those in favour raise your hands please. Sack this man immediately and find him a job within the EU commission!

 

[trex]

no, I am not saying that. Airlines will buy their engines on fuel efficiency and price. However, government licences are needed for engines. Currently, the EU has trade deals with about 58 countries in addition to trading blocs, making the selling process much more streamlined than after Brexit.
Airlines need to place forward contracts for decades, they certainly don't want anyone rocking the boat.
The economic future after Brexit is the non-aligned bloc. I don't want us to go there.

 

[shemozzle999]

Still waiting for an answer on how we will be able to extract 1.6 trillion pounds out of the trade with the EU to eradicate our debt.

 

[trex]

the short term solution is more immigration.
the slightly longer term is continuation of quantitative easing, keeping interest low as long as possible.
the real answer is less promises on election manifestos and more productivity. Get more people into work. More robots on production lines.

 

[tillson]

no, I am not saying that. Airlines will buy their engines on fuel efficiency and price. However, government licences are needed for engines. Currently, the EU has trade deals with about 58 countries in addition to trading blocs, making the selling process much more streamlined than after Brexit.
Airlines need to place forward contracts for decades, they certainly don't want anyone rocking the boat.
The economic future after Brexit is the non-aligned bloc. I don't want us to go there.

When it's hard cash and the company's health is at stake, a way will always be found. That's why we will still trade if BREXIT happens.

 

[derf]

Still waiting for an answer on how we will be able to extract 1.6 trillion pounds out of the trade with the EU to eradicate our debt.

"we" (usa/uk) have created most of the debt through causing the 2008 financial crisis by having a corrupt/compromised financial system, the eu wants to block excessive banker's bonuses, the tory/uk government does not. the question isn't how we will extract money from the eu - there isn't any easy ways to undo the damage usa/uk financial systems have done to the world - the question is how to prevent history from repeating itself. having a runaway capitalist system under boris and some free range bankers would be a really good way to repeat what happened in 2008

 

[oldgroaner]

By incremental reductions and promoting business of course, taking advantage of the trade deals we already have that you want to throw away, and replace with mythical deals with mythical customers

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[shemozzle999]

By incremental reductions and promoting business of course, taking advantage of the trade deals we already have that you want to throw away, and replace with mythical deals with mythical customers

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And how long would that take to convince every Eu citizen to part with £3200 to eliminate our debt without being free to trade outside of Europe?